I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed • Hacker News Board

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#401

Post by mac01021 » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #103

crimsonalucard wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral imperatives do not always correlate with survival imperatives. I'm not going to say whether or not I believe in immigration, but there are two things I will say: 1. Arguments against immigration stem not from moral imperatives, but from survival instinct. 2. If we open up immigration, America as we know it will change dramatically, in either a good or bad way. I think what we have now is already pretty good, so…

Firstly, America as we know it has been changing dramatically and continuously since its inception. I don't see anyone mourning the loss of the Bourbon Democrats or tariff acts, but suffice to say they aren't here anymore. Secondly, what are you referring to by "what we have now"? Immigration law in particular, or U.S. policy on a macro level?

If a nation faces some future peril due to some degree of overpopulation, while the world as a whole faces greater future peril due to a markedly larger degree of overpopulation, then the people of that nation are likely better off not opening their borders. I have yet to decide whether the present situation of the USA fits this description, but it is at least not far fetched.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#402

Post by ashwinaj » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

As a foreigner (including myself) the OP should have realized what's required to stay in the US beyond the H1B. In his case, it was applying for the green card lottery and employment based green card. Since he is a citizen of NZ, if he had applied for an employment based green card, he would've obtained it in less than 2 years. This might sound harsh, but there is no point complaining about the immigration system which we have no control over. It was his responsibility to make sure he accept a job offer with written commitment by the company to apply for his green card (this is commonplace in STEM, I'm not sure about law firms, but hey anything is negotiable). If they said no or stalled at his request, move on to the next employer. I know I'm making it sound as if it's easy to get another job, but wishful thinking or being lackadaisical is not a solution either.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#403

Post by hippich » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

US immigration process is cumbersome, and painful for people born in some countries (like India and China,) but certainly not prohibitive.

Quote:

    Additionally, an H1-B visa (the most common form 
    of work visa and the only form available to most)
    is only valid for three years and renewable only
    once. This means that the skilled legal immigrant
    must obtain permanent residency or a green card if
    he or she wishes to stay for more than a few years.
    Again, an employer can sponsor an employee's green
    card, but the employer must again bear the costs,
    which can run to the tens of thousands of dollars,
    and again the employee cannot offer to pay the cost.

I personally was able to find online (!) lawyer who did all the greencard paperwork required for about $1,500 (most of it indeed had to be paid by company, but not all of it.) About the same had to be paid to federal government by company, and few hunder later to actually adjust status and receive greencard (paid by me.)

Unlike OP I had no money to pay for college, so I found Austin company, worked for them as a freelancer and then convinced to sponsor H-1B visa. Unlike OP I had no way to just come over to talk with potential employers while on tourist visa - US embassy twice refused to give one to me because of a high risk me staying illegally in their opinion. So, sorry, but this story is just a story about "how privileged i feel, i got two degrees", not about "impossible to get citizenship". It is weird that after obtaining two degrees OP still could not follow bureaucratic process...

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#404

Post by deciplex » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

mikekchar wrote: post #359

diego_moita wrote: post #272

Disclaimer: I am a Canadian permanent resident. > I like it here. This is the real problem, you have a severe case of non-reciprocal love. In that case the answer is obvious: move over, find another love, come to Canada or go to Northern Europe. U.S. immigration is an American problem,since they are the ones loosing talent and entrepreneurial people. It is not an immigrant's problem, since they don't have the powers…

> Here in Canada we have a much more open immigration policy "Much more open" is a relative term, I suppose. I am a Canadian citizen, born in Canada with all my family (save my wife) living in Canada. I live in Japan with my wife who is Japanese. A few years ago my wife wanted to move to an English speaking country so that she could improve her English and live abroad. I'll just be plain. It was easier for me to get…

> After 5 years in the country I can apply for permanent residence status (which is similarly rubber-stampy).

You can apply after five years, but it only gets 'rubber-stampy' where you are basically sure to get it, after ten. YMMV though - this is only what I've heard and is not from personal experience as I've yet to actually apply for PR despite being here for well over a decade now.

By the way you are definitely missing some steps in moving to Canada with your wife. It is not nearly as hard for her to move there with you as you're making it out to be. Do some more research.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#405

Post by dsinsky » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:08 AM UTC

ElComradio wrote: post #36

vonklaus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of a comprehensive study that has been done (although there probably is) that links qualified individuals immigrating with net economic growth. However, if you look at it like VC investing, it would be worth letting 1000 people in to get an entrepreneur capable of making a Stripe, Tesla, etc. According to this forbes article[0] 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants. Obviously, ma…

I think it sounds good on paper but in practice… the question is more along the lines of: is it worth depressing the wages of 1M employees in order to try to capture the next Zuckerberg, who creates a company that only employs a few thousand people?

Why does your cost-benefit calculation not include the benefits to those foreign workers who are allowed to compete for jobs in the U.S.?

The academic literature* shows much, much larger productivity and income gains to those who migrate to richer countries than any negative effect to native workers. Even if an influx of immigrants depressed some existing Americans' wages by a small amount, that delta would only pale in comparison to how much better of the immigrants would be.

Do you oppose efforts to educate more American's as computer scientists? This too would "depress" the wages of existing computer scientists but you would (hopefully) find it abhorrent if someone used your "wage depression" logic to stop teaching CS in inner-city schools.

Unless you think that the lives of non-American's are not worth considering, these hugely positive impacts of immigration should be part of your calculation.

* http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~jkennan/research/OpenBorders.pdf?ne... http://www.cgdev.org/files/1425376_file_Clemens_Economics_an...

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#406

Post by querulous » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:12 AM UTC

smutticus wrote: post #265

As an American who immigrated to The Netherlands I would like to know of this mythical country in the world with a working immigration system. AFAICT they're all rather broken. US immigration might be broken in different ways than some other countries, but from the many stories I've heard of friends moving all over the world, they all pretty much suck.

Canada is pretty good. The points system sets a reasonably high bar but at least it's fairly objective. Once you're in the path from temporary foreign worker to permanent resident to citizen is well defined and works fairly well despite the slow processing times.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#407

Post by incompatible » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:12 AM UTC

zerr wrote: post #106

geebee wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance you'd be willing to write a bit more about your support for open borders? In particular, I'm interested in knowing whether you think this is a situation where it would be both moral and beneficial, or if you feel that it is simply wrong to limit where people can live and work based on where they were born (or even where their grandparents were born) even if the overall effect on current citizens of some re…

One would think, countries like USA, Australia or NZ might be afraid of immigration because they know what they did to native inhabitants... Generally, think about the situation where all (most) countries abolish borders, not just NZ or other small country. Moving is the basic human right, and the sooner we realize the better for mankind, assuming the culture of the host country is respected. Of course the culture ne…

It's an interesting issue. The right to move around freely seems more appealing than expecting people to be essentially imprisoned in their countries of citizenship. On the other hand, there are obviously billions of people living in poor and otherwise dis-functional countries, and if even a fraction decided to move to a country like New Zealand, you can imaging it becoming ridiculously overpopulated.

Alternatively, should we accept that population groups that have a higher birth rate should naturally dominate future generations, or is it acceptable to fence off certain parts of the world with lower birth rates and a better natural environment?

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#408

Post by ex3ndr » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:14 AM UTC

For me most awful thing in immigration that i can't marry green card holder at all. Because we need to wait 5 years abroad and she can't leave country for more than half year for conversion Green Card to citizenship and i can't came to US because i am married in permanent resident. Why, hell, i can't may woman that i love and with whom i want to make family? I am extremely skilled worker and done two businesses in my country and i wanted to make more in US.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#409

Post by pkaye » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:15 AM UTC

sampo wrote: post #369

pkaye wrote: post #41

Is it much easier in the EU? For example, can I go to Switzerland or France and easily get permanent residency?

> Is it much easier in the EU? You still need a job offer to first enter the country, but changing jobs will involve less bureaucracy than in the USA, and after having been employed in the country for 5-10 years, and speaking a local language, you can apply for permanent residency or citizenship yourself, so the hassle of needing you employer to do it for you, does not exist.

In the US, most H1B hires I personally know have had their green card sponsorship started within an year of hire. Then it takes about 2-3 years to get it finalized. I knew of one who even got the process started in 2 months.

So there are some differences from other countries but no 5-10 years wait.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#410

Post by landryraccoon » Wed, Jun 24, 2015, 1:16 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #323

tormeh wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Muslim immigrants are usually just socially conservative. It's their children that are radicalized in European society. It's a testament to the failure of current integration policies. The unpleasant fact is that proper integration costs money - they need to be taught the biggest official language and English, they need to be taught a profitable trade and they need to get up to speed on the domestic cultu…

>The unpleasant fact is that proper integration costs money // For those selecting to immigrate why not put the onus on them to integrate too? Why should the onus be on the established population to adapt? [That's obviously not appropriate for some classes of migrant like refugees, but I'm sure that's clear.] >The alternative is to create an underclass visibly different to the majority - that doesn't end well. // Mus…

> For those selecting to immigrate why not put the onus on them to integrate too? Why should the onus be on the established population to adapt?

What's the point of assigning blame? The established population can either close the borders completely, or help immigrants immigrate at their own expense - becuase THEY are the ones who stand to lose or gain the most. Purely as a matter of pragmatism, it's the established residents who will have to pay, as they're the only ones who can. They can also choose to close the borders completely, but I don't think there is any other alternative. To assign blame may make one feel self righteous but it is hardly a solution.