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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#401

Post by 0dayz »

miki123211 wrote: post #400
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

CSA doesn't neatly fit into a narrative. If there's a person committing abuse against a child, usually a family member in their own household, there's no story there. They (hopefully) get arrested, get a minor mention in the media if that, and life moves on. If, on the other hand, they send CSAM using a platform, device or protocol, then clearly the makers of that technology failed to uphold their sacred duty to prot…

Sorry but I'm intrigued, what was the moral panic about bicycles and Walkman?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#402

Post by belorn »

throwaway17824 wrote: post #309
nativeit wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did we aggressively legislate against, search for, monitor, investigate, and prosecute owning firearms?

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

When we say that handguns cause more deaths than assault rifles, is that normalized towards ownership?

Data and statistics is as always dependent on how and what you measure.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#403

Post by Gareth321 »

one33seven wrote: post #390
jaharios wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vote in a literal tyrant. Tyrant? You may disagree with him, but he got in through the system. Now if he doesn't get out that is another story.

Hitler was elected too (not saying he is Hitler)

Hitler was not elected Chancellor by the German public. Germany had/has a mixed-member proportional system, meaning that coalitions may form after everyone votes President Paul von Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor on 30 January 1933 after negotiations among conservative politicians who believed they could control him. The Nazi Party was the largest party, but it won only 33.1% of the vote in the final free Reichstag election of November 1932 and never secured a popular majority. Once appointed, Hitler exploited emergency powers and political intimidation to dismantle democratic institutions and convert his government into a dictatorship.

During his political ascent he used his Brownshirts - a large, organised paramilitary force - to assault political opponents, break up rival meetings, intimidate voters, and fight street battles, helping destabilise the Weimar Republic and suppress opposition.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#404

Post by psd1 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #272
Hasz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials…

> The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) Well, most of Europe simply has banned guns in the hands of civilians instead, so that's some data as well. The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blather…

> Well, most of Europe simply has banned guns in the hands of civilians instead, so that's some data as well

No, that's some bullshit. How do you think we eat pheasant and rabbit and venison? Show me a pheasant farm and I'll show you forty acres of unfenced woodland littered with empty cartridges.

Observe! https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-owner...

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#405

Post by jcgl »

mannanj wrote: post #153
kowbell wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your phone also made of indestructible materials so it can't break, and magnetically linked to your person so it can't be stolen? Backups exist so you don't lose precious photos/data if you lose the device. Most People™ do not have the technical knowledge to set up a self-owned backup system, and/or will not realize how badly their future selves will wish they had backups if the setup friction for a self-owned sol…

I think we are closing that gap with AI coding tools. A growing number of people people today can figure out how to run Fable in a co work session, or codex, and that can indeed set up the self-owned backup system for you along with an alternative trustable cloud backup thats not Apple or Google.

Technical people, maybe. Even if we hypothetically grant that vibe-coded backup systems can be trusted, deploying, using, and maintaining are still hurdles. And there’s absolutely no way that’s all tractable for the vast, vast majority of the population.

Mind you, an average person probably doesn’t even really know what a server is. And these average people need backups just as much as (probably more than) people technical enough to vibe-and-deploy.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#406

Post by Ntrails »

mallets wrote: post #358
jaharios wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vote in a literal tyrant. Tyrant? You may disagree with him, but he got in through the system. Now if he doesn't get out that is another story.

Being a tyrant has little to do with term limits or office duration.

A couple of dictionary checks suggest some set of:

- Ruler who is unrestrained by law or constitution

- A usurper of sovereignty

- Ruler who uses power oppressively or unjustly

Obviously b) is not applicable as per GP. He has also been constrained by the supreme court and others multiple times in this term, which suggests a) is a stretch. c) probably a fair accusation, though I'm not sure I would agree.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#407

Post by antonvs »

kelnos wrote: post #375
throwaway17824 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

Are handgun deaths predominantly murder, or are they mostly accidents? If the latter, then I don't think it's odd to go after AR-15-type weapons, which usually end up killing people during mass shooting incidents.

> Are handgun deaths predominantly murder, or are they mostly accidents?

Have you met many humans?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#408

Post by brabel »

rootusrootus wrote: post #265
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

> On the CSA side, you rarely hear about arrests (they happen but less than CSAM). Because it is nearly always someone we know. Someone who we just cannot imagine would ever do such a thing, even when the evidence is glaringly obvious. And I suspect that the fraction of the population diddling kids in real life is breathtaking, and nobody really wants to face that head on. Too uncomfortable. I could just be overly cy…

I thought it had never happened around me in my whole life, but my sister recently told me that when she just in primary school, a friend of my dad gave her a lift and while she was in the car, inserted his fingers on her. Like WTF! I really had no idea this could have happened in my environment. I guess it probably happened more than I know to others too uncomfortable to say anything, took my sister 30 years to say something.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#409

Post by brabel »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #316
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

CSAM laws in many jurisdictions include computer generated or hand crafted media that do not pre-require CSA at all. The idea is that deviance leads to CSA, and by cracking down on CSAM, we are preventing CSA.

This is such a slippery slope. It amounts to thought police. You did not actually cause any harm, but thought of doing something. Where do we stop ? If I fantasize about my pretty coworker without her consent, am I a rapist now? What if I make a sketch of her naked? Is that a crime? What if I ask AI to remove her clothes from a real picture? Even if I just immediately delete it?? I guess that there’s different levels to each “offense”, and at one level it does become criminal, but it’s hard to unequivocally decide where.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#410

Post by SuperNinKenDo »

belorn wrote: post #402
throwaway17824 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

When we say that handguns cause more deaths than assault rifles, is that normalized towards ownership? Data and statistics is as always dependent on how and what you measure.

Not to get too off track, but it's actually an interesting case in that it's one of those where weighting for prevalence of ownership wouldn't matter for the purpose of discovering the more effective measure. If you did something to restrict handguns you would prevent more death than restricting other firearms.

Also, not that it has any bearing on what I said, but I'm decidedly pro-gun for any repliers who want to follow up on this tangent.

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