Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Keep Android Open

f-droid.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 764 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#401

Post by singpolyma3 »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #225
codethief wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong disagree. Linux, its permission system and its (barely existent) application isolation are lightyears away from the security guarantees that Android brings.

Desktop OSes and their derivatives are woefully behind in this regard, and unfortunately the will to bring them up to par is incredibly weak. Of those in mass use (Qubes OS is neat but its user base isn’t even a rounding error), macOS probably does the most, but it’s still lagging behind iOS and what’s been implemented has come with much consternation from the technically inclined peanut gallery. I understand some am…

Letting everything I install have access to everything is the core feature I want out of a platform. If I can't have that might as well just use android

Re: Keep Android Open

#402

Post by andrewmcwatters »

good8675309 wrote: post #177
arcanemachiner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

Until Android is crippled it will continue to take resources away from Linux Phone development and companies that will launch phones for it

I got downvoted heavily about a year ago saying we need to abandon Android and the industry needs to pivot back to just putting GNU/Linux on a phone already.

Of course, now Google is doing what Google was always going to do.

Re: Keep Android Open

#403

Post by GaryBluto »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #380
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've cultivated a tech culture that can't stand the slightest inconvenience. People will give up nearly everything if it means avoiding the least bit of effort. We are so boned

So yes if it weren’t for people wanting convenience the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have happened 25 years ago. What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends?

> What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends?

The exercise would do people good. Jokes aside though, there is a nuance between completely inconvenient and designed for the marching morons.

Re: Keep Android Open

#404

Post by aryonoco »

earth2mars wrote: post #302
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

The only reason I was sticking to Android for years is this. And I think there is no moat for Android. I would rather switch to iOS if both platforms are same restrictive.

I did this last year. Reluctantly. And using iOS still hurts. But it’s better than that Google crap.

I developed my own Android ROMs from 2009-2011, complete with my own tuned kernel. I ran the local Android developers MeetUp group and evangelised Android development. When Honeycomb launched I helped OEMs test their beta firmware. For free.

But as Google has become certified Evil, the direction of Android has been very clear. In practice I honestly can’t say it’s now any more open than iOS. Except it has a lot more avenues for Google to mine your data to sell ads. And the quality of third party apps on it is decidedly worse.

I thought long and hard about getting a Linux phone. But I need a good camera on my phone to take random snaps of kids/pets/etc. And the Linux phones just aren’t there.

I hate the shitty duopoly we have ended up with. But I now realise that the openness of x86 and pc as platform really was an accident of history.

Re: Keep Android Open

#405

Post by Affric »

paxys wrote: post #95
handity wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hard fork doesn't matter when the vast majority of phones have a locked bootloader.

Google's own phones do not have a locked booloader. You can buy a Pixel and put GrapheneOS on it in like 10 minutes. But basically no one does this, because no matter what people say in online forums they actually value ease of use and shiny features over privacy and software freedom.

It's the nature of free software.

The reason GNU and Linux won was because they produced software that was sufficient for the market: servers.

The software is also sufficiently good for a PC for software development.

There's almost sufficient software for PC gaming (up against an absolutely insane monopoly that is Microsoft).

Phones are slightly different and for something more than a dumb phone you need great hardware; great software; and great integration.

Employee computers for companies and general home users or tablets? Still a ways to go.

I don't think wanting features and good UX is unreasonable from consumers.

Re: Keep Android Open

#406

Post by shakna »

danny_codes wrote: post #387
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

I’ve found the mobile websites for a lot of these cases to be fine. Not a great UX but not a blocker

And if your bank only does 2FA via app?

Re: Keep Android Open

#407

Post by b00ty4breakfast »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #380
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've cultivated a tech culture that can't stand the slightest inconvenience. People will give up nearly everything if it means avoiding the least bit of effort. We are so boned

So yes if it weren’t for people wanting convenience the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have happened 25 years ago. What do you suggest? Everyone carry around their desktop computers and our CRT monitors like we did when we wanted to play Quake with friends?

yes, getting emails or text messages instead of having app alerts is luddism.

Get real, dawg

Re: Keep Android Open

#408

Post by cyberrock »

microtonal wrote: post #92
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

The impact is a direct threat to independent AOSP distributions like Murena's e/OS/ (which I'm personally using). I don't think this is true, right? An AOSP build can just decide to still allow installing arbitrary APKs. Also see this post from the GrapheneOS team: https://mastodon.social/@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social/116103...

The enforcement mechanism is in Google Play Services, not AOSP. To laypeople the difference doesn't matter but to folks looking for alternatives it does, so the discussion is often muddied and imprecise. This is like when YouTube removed public dislike counts and it turned into "they're removing the dislike button!"

Re: Keep Android Open

#409

Post by LtWorf »

dmitrygr wrote: post #105
ruuda wrote: post #8

I contacted the EU DMA team about my concerns and got a real reply within 24 hours. Not just an automated message, it looked like a real human read my message and wrote a reply. I'd urge other EU citizens to do the same.

[flagged]

So you're saying that if I open a restaurant I'm free to poison the food and you can just decide whether to eat there or not and no government should be able to forbid me to do this?

Re: Keep Android Open

#410

Post by singpolyma3 »

hbn wrote: post #138
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

Who could Android be possibly recommended to at this point? I know iPhones aren't affordable for the layman in many countries. But for anyone with an option, why would you buy an Android? All the "customization" things I cared about when I was on Android are either doable on an iPhone now with better implementation, or something I don't care about. I was a die-hard until I went through enough cycles of Google depreca…

As someone who hates both android and iOS but currently has to use iOS, I definitely hate it more. It lacks so many things one can take for granted on android. Even a usable keyboard is missing from iOS.
Post reply on HN