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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#401

Post by ncasenmare »

Aurornis wrote: post #385
ncasenmare wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, author of the blog post here! Thank you for writing in with your concerns. First: > Please be very careful when someone tries to tell you that supplements are miraculous and pharmaceutical drugs don’t work at all. I'll concede I unintentionally gave the tone that one should replace antidepressants with supplements, even though the conclusion specifically writes: "(Don't quit your existing antidepressants if they'…

> Researchers have noticed it for 13 years! From the linked Ghaemi et al 2024 meta-analysis You’re cherry picking papers. Others have already shared other studies showing no significant effects of Vitamin D intervention. For any popular supplement you can find someone publishing papers with miraculous results, showing huge effect sizes and significant outcomes. This has been going on for decades. With Omega-3s the la…

> You’re cherry picking papers.

I just picked the most recent meta-analysis I could find, which also specifically estimates the dose-response curve. (Since averaging the effect at 400 IU and 4000 IU doesn't make sense.)

> Others have already shared other studies showing no significant effects of Vitamin D intervention.

Yes, and the Ghaemi et al 2024 meta-analysis addresses the methodological problems in those earlier meta-analyses. (For example, they average the effects at vastly varying doses from 400 IU and 4000 IU)

> According your numbers, taking Tylenol would be worse than placebo alone! 0.4 vs 0.7

No, I understand this fine. Taking Tylenol would give you active medication + placebo + time, which is 0.4 + 0.7 + X > *1.1.* Taking open-label placebo is just placebo + time = *0.7* + X.

(Edit: Also, these aren't "my" numbers. They're from a major peer-reviewed study published in Nature, the highest-impact journal. I don't like "hey look at the credentials here", but I bring it up to note I'm not anti-science, see below paragraph)

===

Stepping back, I suspect the broader concern you have is you (correctly!) see that supplement/nutrition research is sketchy & full of grifters. And at the current moment, it seems to play into the hands of anti-establishment anti-science types. I agree, and I'll try to edit the tone of the article to avoid that.

That said, there still is some good science (among the crap), and I think the better evidence is accumulating (at least for Vitamin D) that it's on par with traditional antidepressants, possibly more. I agree that much larger trials are required.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#402

Post by sreekanth850 »

I had sleeplessness that eventually led to depression and gastritis. I took medication for two years to recover. The root cause was a vitamin D deficiency my level was 8 ng/mL, which was far below the required range. There was a period when i was only able to sleep with medicines. Now coming back to normal life.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#403

Post by quietsegfault »

corv wrote: post #365
Aerbil313 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit off-topic, but melatonin taken at right doses appears to work very well. (commonly prescribed doses are 10-30x too much and likely cause tolerance). See the post https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

I’ve heard this before that common doses are unnecessarily high but why is that? Patents?

> why is that

Why buy 1mg pill when you can buy 100mg pill?

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#404

Post by dec0dedab0de »

b800h wrote: post #10

Can I just add: In addition to this, if you struggle with anxiety or have some sort of ADHD, then try cutting out caffeine entirely . Not just switching to "decaf" (which isn't), but cutting out tea and coffee, and switching to an alternative like Barleycup. Doing this has had a massive positive effect for me, and combined with decent nutrition and daily exercise, has been wonderful.

Counterpoint, purposely adding caffeine in the form of different mushroom coffees has greatly improved my ADHD symptoms.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#405

Post by 16bitvoid »

kanbankaren wrote: post #376
16bitvoid wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly reductive. I'm sure some people's depression can boil down to a matter of perspective, but it's naive to extrapolate that to everyone with depression. I'm incredibly optimistic and am content with my position in life. My default state is being mindful of the present and I don't think about things too far into the future. I very rarely ever feel stressed out over things in life. However, none of that…

> I feel completely empty and find no joy in things. Maybe the idea that we should find joy and feel full is wrong? We are on a random planet circling a random star in an unfathomable Universe. STOP looking for meaning and you are liberated. The quest for meaning by itself might be exhausting and makes you feel depressed.

Who said I'm looking for meaning? I'm not.

It's not as liberating as you might think. A joyless existence is either suffering or nothingness. A life without meaning, either internal or external, is one where nothing is meaningful with no motivation thus one of crippling catatonia til death.

All I can say is just that it doesn't feel good and if you can't feel good about anything, your calculus of your life inevitably leads to the conclusion that existence isn't worth it.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#406

Post by ndarray »

AdamN wrote: post #230
Aldipower wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be 5g. At this point everyone should notice that something is off. :-D 5000 mg of vitamin D3 = 200,000,000 IU (200 million IU)

People don't always realize: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/university-fined-in-caff...

Wow that must be hell

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#407

Post by somehnguy »

drumdance wrote: post #243
chasil wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I have a yearly physical, my GP will ask if I have feelings of depression. I know this road leads to SSRIs at the very least, so I always reply in the negative. The parent comment hints to me that this might be a mistake. I do not want to become accustomed to an antidepressant, so perhaps my course of action was correct. I was measured low on Vitamin D, which I've hopefully corrected, and I haven't always…

There are also SNRIs, which don't have the sexual side effects. I've done mostly SSRIs but in the last few years I've been on an SNRI called Pristiq and it's the best by far.

YMMV for sure - I was on an SNRI (Cymbalta) for a few months as an attempt to eliminate nerve pain. It all but destroyed my ability to climax both during and for maybe 6 months after getting off of it.

The brain zaps were also hell if I was even like an hour later than usual to take it

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#408

Post by Aerbil313 »

nikolatt wrote: post #319
humanfromearth9 wrote: post #307

The first thing I would do in case of depression is to make sure that the patient's energy levels are good and that mitochondria and other energy-related biochem phenomena work as expected. I know first-hand that low energy-levels and lacking energy production mechanically lead to depression. Also, look at how people (children also) experience the world and their relationships and their stresses when they are tired (…

Thank you for the comment. This is not in my area of expertise, so I hope you can clarify - how does one test that "mitochondria and other energy-related biochem phenomena work as expected"?

Just as an example, here is a small part of it: MTFHR mutation causes megaloblastic anemia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45085439

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#409

Post by graemep »

isoprophlex wrote: post #214
graemep wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is SAD have you tried bright daylight balanced lighting?

Yeah, I have an extremely bright lamp designed to tread SAD that I sit, or well used to sit, in front of every morning. Daylight responsive led strip in my home office. And a pair of glasses with blue LEDs for on the go. It did... 10%? of what citalopram eventually did for me.

Thanks for the reply. Does the citalopram completely obviate the need for the extra lighting or do you find there is still a benefit to having the daylight lighting too?
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