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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#401

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

>someday someone will come along and make a genuine artistic viable piece of work using ai

Always has been :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpUj9zpOiP0

(And honorary mention)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYKAOPj_uts

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#402
post #62

Not a musician (dabble with the guitar from time to time but I do absolutely love music) and don’t make music but one of my best friends growing up has been playing instruments forever. He writes songs and song lyrics. He has started a YouTube channel and shares some of the music he makes, and it sounds really great. I am amazed sometimes how great. But he puts in lots of effort to craft these songs and lyrics. They…

This is just a fad. The platforms will soon learn that the vocal minority is not necessarily their best customer. And then they'll slowly / quietly revert their bans or stop enforcing them. If people listen to music, they like the music, and it can come from wherever. Gatekeeping never works.

> If people listen to music, they like the music

This isn't true, there's a wide array of reasons people might listen to the music.

The most obvious problem here is that, since AI allows creation with zero effort or time, it has the ability to absolutely flood every creation market it touches.

It's not possible to find out that you actually hate AI generated music and actually love Queen when you're forced to listen to 1.2 million songs before you find Queen. Or, whatever new artist equivalent.

It's the same issue on video platforms. Is there non-slop content on Instagram Reels? Yes. Can you find it? Uh... no. So you're gonna be watching slop and you're gonna like it, because that's all you know.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is such a bizarre opinion to have. Do you not enjoy art because it gives you joy?

Of course I do. But what gives me joy with art is that it's a communication from one person to another. It's not about pretty sounds (or pictures, or whatever the medium is). If that communication isn't there, then the art has no real value to me regardless of how pretty it is. If I think I'm talking with a person and it turns out that I'm talking with a machine, I've been duped and will likely be angry about it. Ano…

>But what gives me joy with art is that it's a communication from one person to another

Maybe if a person generated 50,000 songs, not even listening to them, you could have a point. Although, even in that case, regardless of the lack of an "artist's intention," there is the interpretation of what people will take from that thing. And that interpretation is often different from what the author originally had in mind. Hell, most people don't know the author of most movies, TV shows, and the like they watched. In other words, to me, it's more about what people take from that thing, as opposed to "Oh, what that sentient being was trying to communicate?"

And I do believe a sufficiently advanced AI model would be able to mimic or synthesize human knowledge/worries/dramas in such a profound way that, regardless of "intention to communicate," it would be able to create things that people would relate to and take deeper meaning from.

Also: the very dataset where that thing was trained wasn't trained on an alien dataset, with an alien culture and the like, all originating from poems written by real people, movies by real people, etc., etc. The model learned from human culture; therefore, whatever it produces is a reflection of that culture, which people could and most likely will relate to, and, hell, they are already doing that.

But even taking the argument at face value, "Oh, human creation," someone might have used AI, but they were still involved in all parts of the creation process, like writing the lyrics, curating the data, and the very fact of them choosing a song and saying, "Hey, I liked that, I will share it with people," would already be a communication.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#404
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I see defences of AI "art" people very often reduce the arguments to these analogies of using tools, but it's ineffective. Whether you use MS Paint, Photoshop, pencil, watercolor etc. That all requires skill, practice, and is this great intersection of intent and ability. It's authentic . Generating media with AI requires no skill, no intent, and very minimal labor. It is an approximation of the words you ty…

Sure, but you also just disregarded a whole swath of people who use the tools/abstractions as a component of the composition of a final work. If I download a free vector of a premade sun to put into my final multimodal image, how is that any less authentic to me and my work? You feel like I cheated? Not how you would do it? This reminds me of when the film industry moved to digital and the pro associations said for c…

Obviously it's a sliding scale, but suno is allllll the way on one end. It's no more work than me contacting an artist and just asking him to write and produce me a song. I didn't do anything, I commissioned it.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#405
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you also just disregarded a whole swath of people who use the tools/abstractions as a component of the composition of a final work. If I download a free vector of a premade sun to put into my final multimodal image, how is that any less authentic to me and my work? You feel like I cheated? Not how you would do it? This reminds me of when the film industry moved to digital and the pro associations said for c…

Obviously it's a sliding scale, but suno is allllll the way on one end. It's no more work than me contacting an artist and just asking him to write and produce me a song. I didn't do anything, I commissioned it.

I mean my camera has a full auto setting I don't use it that way, same with Suno, you can get the stems out of suno, you can gen just one instrument, just a sound, just an a cappella, I use it to gen things to put onto my OP1, does that count? This is My lyrics + Suno + OP1 + KOII + Abelton + 20hours or so?: https://soundcloud.com/john/golden

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#406
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most human derived goods markets need to filter low effort attempts at monetization in general. I'm tired of going to Renn. Faire / Farmer Markets / Artist Alley Markets only to find they've started letting in "Joe Blow with a poorly configured 3d printer #35." These places have become infested with people selling the exact same piles of thingverse trash in a rainbow of colors. It sucks that a lot of these types of m…

After 3D-print slop infested craft fairs, and fake AI-slop products infested Etsy, it's got me to wondering: is this just an evolution in an existing scummy business model? Consider how easy it would have been, any time in the last decade, to get a booth at any "local hand-made goods craft fair", selling "hand-made" copper jewelry... that you happened to buy in bulk lots off Alibaba. The jewelry was "hand-made"... ki…

> any time in the last decade, to get a booth at any "local hand-made goods craft fair", selling "hand-made" copper jewelry... that you happened to buy in bulk lots off Alibaba.

I've seen exactly this a few times in Madrid already, right next to the "dude with bad 3D printer #35"-type stands. A friend of mine loves finding the Aliexpress product page right in front of them.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI takes all of that old school idm and electronic music and repackages it without a human story to tell, ripping off actual musicians in the process. AI didn’t magically ‘make old IDM its own.’ It scraped decades of artists’ work, stripped out the context and intent, and reassembled the surface features. There’s no human arc, no lived constraint, no risk and no culture. What’s being repackaged isn’t a new instrument…

I know a few EDM producers and the culture seems to consist of doing the most drugs of anyone you've ever met. Which is quite risky, true.

[deleted]

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI takes all of that old school idm and electronic music and repackages it without a human story to tell, ripping off actual musicians in the process. AI didn’t magically ‘make old IDM its own.’ It scraped decades of artists’ work, stripped out the context and intent, and reassembled the surface features. There’s no human arc, no lived constraint, no risk and no culture. What’s being repackaged isn’t a new instrument…

I'm honestly not getting the human story thing when it comes to music and maybe art in general. I mean I get what it means, but I don't think it describes why people enjoy art. To me, it seems more like people place their own meaning in art. A particular song might remind one individual of the good times they had in their teens, while the actual meaning of the song is completely different. Bachs 5th symphony (or what…

> Bachs 5th symphony (or whatever) might be extremely annoying to someone because they had to listen to it every day at work.

Or Beethoven's 9th. For different reasons...

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#409
post #72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there's a difference between AI used as a tool and AI used to make slop. Also, most AI music has weird noise in it that drives me insane. I have to imagine* that we will figure out what that difference is, but it will be difficult and costly. * I have to imagine that or else I will lose all hope in the future.

I’m a founder of one of these AI music companies and that noise you’re describing (it differs between co’s for us it’s loud vocals, for Suno it’s vocal aliasing/sandiness and mushy instrumentals, etc) is exactly why I think these songs should not be going on Spotify/etc. We’ll have this (and the corny lyrics issue) mostly fixed in a month or so, then it mostly becomes a recommendations problem. For example, TikTok is…

Ah, when I said "find out what the difference is", I meant more of a cultural understanding than technical.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#410

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Best part of owning music is importing them to an old version of iTunes and sync'ing to your iPod.

I am vindicated in my choice to use an ipod with an aux jack every time Android Auto can't decide whether to connect over USB or bluetooth and just doesn't play audio until I restart the phone and the car...

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