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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#61

Post by themacguffinman »

newman8r wrote: post #50

If I have an exact idea of what I want something to sound like, and I'm able to use an automated system to create that, is that creative expression? Obviously AI isn't entirely capable of that, but eventually with BCI devices it might be. I've spent many hours learning to play guitar and ukulele but I'm really not very good, and probably never will be - but I can hear the music in my head I want to create. I'm not in…

AI is not the only way to make synthetic music. If you have an exact idea, you can use virtual instrument plugins for software like Ableton Live to produce music.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#62

Post by LTL_FTC »

Not a musician (dabble with the guitar from time to time but I do absolutely love music) and don’t make music but one of my best friends growing up has been playing instruments forever. He writes songs and song lyrics. He has started a YouTube channel and shares some of the music he makes, and it sounds really great. I am amazed sometimes how great. But he puts in lots of effort to craft these songs and lyrics. They are not “one-shot” prompts.

If we look at this through the lens of making software with ai, which also allows for creativity, blanket bans may keep lots of quality stuff from being made.

How will the tracks be distinguished? Any ai and you’re out?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#63

Post by wussboy »

tunesmith wrote: post #10

I think the real distinction is whether the output came from the artist's human intention, or whether someone just said "let's just see what happens!"... it's sort of impossible to reach inside the artist's brain to find out where that line is. I suppose the only test is to start with that same intention multiple times and see how widely the output varies.

I understand those distinctions, and I can definitely see people caring about that, although how you would tell seems impossible.

That's why I choose to make the distinction by just not caring about any kind of music that uses any kind of AI.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#64

Post by zdragnar »

newman8r wrote: post #50

If I have an exact idea of what I want something to sound like, and I'm able to use an automated system to create that, is that creative expression? Obviously AI isn't entirely capable of that, but eventually with BCI devices it might be. I've spent many hours learning to play guitar and ukulele but I'm really not very good, and probably never will be - but I can hear the music in my head I want to create. I'm not in…

> We want musicians to keep making music, and for fans to have confidence that the music they find on Bandcamp was created by humans.

It sounds like bandcamp is not the right place for what you want to do. There's plenty of ways to do what you're looking for though!

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#65

Post by bopbopbop7 »

thorum wrote: post #48

Can’t imagine this policy lasts more than a year or two given the rate that AI tools for music are improving. Once the tech can reliably create high quality dry stems of instruments, backing tracks etc. and automate professional-sounding production work (which most musicians do not currently have access to) everyone is going to be using it even if they won’t admit it publicly.

Just a couple more months and a couple more trillion dollars to Altman!

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#66

Post by IAmGraydon »

free_bip wrote: post #8
adriand wrote: post #2

This seems like a good decision, although, is there a good way to tell if music is AI-generated? I assume that some of the music that's showing up in my Spotify feed is AI-generated but I've never noticed.

At least for the current AI music generators, it's pretty easy to tell by ear that it's AI generated. Everything is just a little off, especially the higher frequencies. Vocals often sound indistinct, like an unholy amalgamation of thousands of people are singing instead of a single person.

I think it would be very difficult for most people to tell that songs are generated by Suno 5. There are some interesting anomalies I can see in the spectrum and mid/side channels, like Suno music often has very little information in the side channel (what happens when you subtract the left and right channels from each other). You also commonly see the eq curve of the rhythm section shift over time throughout the song - like drums will sound normal at the beginning but end up sounding kind of under water by the end, but they are quickly improving these things. But to the layperson, many of these things are completely invisible. The most obvious tell, IMO, is the cadence of the lyrics.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#67

Post by devilcius »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #34
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

I miss what.cd, bandcamp almost a replacement

There's is a quite solid alternative to what.cd: https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#68

Post by bombdailer »

echelon wrote: post #21
hmokiguess wrote: post #13

I have a maybe unpopular opinion to share. We now sort of accepted the idea of “vibe coding”, and, even shared appreciation from people who are using it to resuscitate side projects and things they wanted to do but required a lot of work. (Heck, even Linus Torvalds is doing it). Is “Vibe Music / Art” any different? For example, I am not a drummer, say I use Suno to program some drums for me so I can record my guitar…

No, but some people really hate it for some reason. I've been attacked for saying I don't hate it, and I witness this everywhere. It's a tool. Artists and professionals can use tools. They're professionals and know how much is too much.

A stonemason who creates pieces by hand gathers more respect than one who delegates their craft to a cnc machine. No person who respects their craft will use tools that devalue their relation to their craft. Only those who seek to maximize personal gain of wealth would use such tools. Such a person, who sees merit only in the ends produced, rather than in the means themselves, does not participate in the shared history of their craft, in artistry, or in their own personal development.

For a real musician, AI is already too much. For there to be meaning and soul in their music, is must be derived from the intersection of their skills and imagination, whereby the unconscious can make itself manifest in the utilization of ones virtues. Delegating this process to a black box deprives the art of its unique individual perspective that can only arise out of the finitude of human experience and learning. For though the black box may have superficial knowledge of generalizations of many such perspectives, it smooths out all paths into bland sameness. Thus no real artist of merit has any use for AI, for it is always of a lower degree than the more powerful tool that is their mind.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#69

Post by RevEng »

sheeh wrote: post #37
RobotToaster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto tune uses a form of "AI", and has been used by most pop singers for a decade.

Auto tune is not what makes a song a hit. What make a song a hit is the fact that the person who injected the use of auto tune has taste. This seems to fly over the heads of many. art is about taste.

The same argument applies to AI generated or assisted music. Anyone can write a prompt and get a song. It takes judgement and taste to pick a good song and choose to publish it.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#70

Post by JoshTriplett »

hmokiguess wrote: post #29
JoshTriplett wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the analogy applies. Vibe music, vibe art, and vibe coding, for the original specific use of "vibe" meaning "take whatever the computer spits out and don't try to understand it or make it human-serviceable at all", are all low-effort, and they don't belong alongside the corresponding human work without a clear warning label. (I also think that "AI-assisted" work should have a clear warning label, but I don't au…

What do you mean by warning? Transparency I get it, what made you pick the word warning specifically? I wouldn’t mind disclosing that my drums were AI generated for example, but what would a “warning” text be?

I mean it in several senses.

In the labeling sense, it's a warning label, in that it serves to tell people who may wish to avoid something that it is present in the product, much like warnings saying "may contain tree nuts" on products that are potentially cross-contaminated. (As compared to a label that people are likely to seek out, like "100% juice", which is regulated differently to prevent people from using it when it doesn't apply.)

In the computing sense, it's a warning, in that it doesn't stop you from ignoring it if you want to, but some people may wish to `-Werror` / `-D warnings`.

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