iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#401

Post by leptons » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 9:08 PM UTC

troupo wrote: post #215

kelthuzad wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Funny how you agree that Firefox opposes these non-standards, and how Google rushes things. And immediately turn around and basically say "no-no-no, Apple is to blame and Safari (and, by extension Firefox) must absolutely implement these non-standard features from Chrome". There is nothing "funny" about me acknowledging facts, that's what a reasonable person should always do, try it. What's not funny though, is how…

> Apple's conflict of interest is motivating them to reject entire feature sets for competing technology instead of helping to implement a safe standard It literally is "everyone must immediately implement anything Chrome shits out". You don't even accept the fact that both Safari and Firefox team reject the entire premise on the same grounds . Nope. "They must work on better standards for these features that Chrome…

It literally is "everyone must immediately not implement anything that cuts into Apple's bottom line"

Apple has veto power over what becomes web standards now. If they didn't abuse that power, and also forbid other browser engines on iOS, then there wouldn't be a problem. They abuse their power in a way that hurts everyone but Apple, and the DOJ took notice.

You say Firefox doesn't implement the same APIs that Apple won't as proof of something, but Opera and other browsers do implement those APIs, so that really cancells out whatever argument you thought you had.

Back in the day, Microsoft invented XMLHTTPRequest, and if Apple had veto power over web standards back then, the web might still be "Web 1.0", hypothetically speaking.

But now Apple can block progress in web browsers now, and the DOJ will likely prove that they are abusing their position to the detriment of everyone that uses a web browser, so Apple can make a few more dollars from their app store.

It should not be so difficult for anyone to understand.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#402

Post by Max-Limelihood » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 9:19 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #83

drnick1 wrote: post #11

2026 should be the year when every tech-minded person dumps Apple (and Google) for good and either starting running either a free Android OS (Graphene, Lineage or a couple of other variants) or a Linux phone. At this point, Apple and Google devices are nothing more than instruments of coercion and mass surveillance.

> 2026 should be the year when every tech-minded person dumps Apple (and Google) for good Why? I am a very tech-minded person but simply don't care about running alternative browser engines on my phone. Am I "wrong" in your opinion?

Huge benefits: the ability to run any website as an app (dramatically cutting back on development costs and allowing us to finally replace Electron with PWAs), 30% cheaper apps (no Apple tax), ad-blocking, and better performance since WebKit will finally have some real competition.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#403

Post by userbinator » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 9:36 PM UTC

mdhb wrote: post #345

userbinator wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't until they stopped adding features to the browser itself that it really started to become a problem. Only for those misguided "push the web forward" idiots who just wanted the latest shiny shit, aided by Google's plans to control the Internet itself. Plain HTML worked well enough for everything else. Google's weapon is change. They have the resources to outcompete everyone else by churning the "standards" a…

This is silly IMO. Technologies like HTTP and Wasm are truly excellent tools for cross platform software delivery and browsers are an ideal sandboxed execution environment. This idea that the web should only be for straight up HTML documents is a broken mental model. Apple have a multi-billion dollar income stream that is firmly premised on the fact that nobody could deliver software on their platform unless they cou…

The problem isn't web apps; it's web apps where simple HTML would be sufficient.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#404

Post by throwaway7356 » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 10:31 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #385

mdhb wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a meaningful amount of blame here that sits squarely at the feet of Apple. 1. They produce the world’s buggiest browser by far. Look at this chart that shows the number of bugs that ONLY OCCUR IN A SINGLE BROWSER. https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&ali... 2. They don’t support any modern testing protocols like WebdriverBiDi 3. They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t…

> They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware. Why should they? When did this become a rule? If Atari survived would they be required to make Windows software? Be? Commodore? Where/why does/should the law require everyone to make Windows apps? Really?

Why should people buy special, extra expensive hardware to test with a bad web browser?

It's logical to skip that step.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#405

Post by kelthuzad » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 11:22 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #384

kelthuzad wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We are helpless now in the near term . It’s not trolling. What can we do in the next two years (let’s say) that would accomplish both letting other browsers on iOS and preventing Chrome from taking over everywhere? I don’t know of another option. As far as I can see, that’s it. Longer term yeah we should break up Google. If they didn’t own Chrome that would fix the problem. But is that going to happen in the next yea…

We are not "helpless" and setting an arbitrary 2-year deadline is a distraction. The DOJ and EU are moving faster than they have in decades. You ask what we can do? We can enforce browser choice screens and allow alternative engines immediately. This gives Firefox (Gecko) a fighting chance on mobile for the first time in history. Keeping the ecosystem locked down ensures Firefox never has a chance.

That line of roleplay of yours also seems to be just 'Doomsday Defense' part 2. Now you’re adding an arbitrary time limit ("next two years") to justify inaction. We don't need to "unwind" Google before we stop Apple's anti-competitive behavior, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The fact that you view "allowing other browsers" (like Firefox) as "handing Google control" reveals the flaw in your logic. You are effectively arguing that we must destroy the village (the open web) to save it from the dragon, if this isn't concern trolling then I don't know what is.

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#406

Post by kelthuzad » Fri, Jan 02, 2026, 11:38 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #399

kelthuzad wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I mean, @lepton literally wrote this: "Maybe part of their agreement is to not implement some features because it would compete with Chrome" about Firefox. No smearing required. Then you should have been more specific, but that is still not even remotely a conspiracy. It is a completely valid potential thesis. Thus, your attempt to hastily dismiss it as "conspiracy" is factually an act of smearing. >I literally say…

> but that is still not even remotely a conspiracy. It is a completely valid potential thesis I dunno, man. It's claiming a literal conspiracy between Google and Firefox to make Firefox worse. In reality, it's an outlandish proposition because Google already holds such high market share for Chrome, they need Firefox as a viable competitor to avoid antitrust concerns. The idea that they'd contractually (or behind-clos…

[flagged]

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#407

Post by leptons » Sat, Jan 03, 2026, 12:30 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #371

leptons wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really care what Firefox does. They get paid massively by Google, so who knows what their motivations are for what they do. Opera implements the same APIs in their browser, but that also doesn't work on iOS because Apple are dicks and force Safari on Opera too. >Not on the formal standards track. What a coincidence, Apple gets to vote on what the "formal standards track" is, and they have voted against anythi…

You seem to have lost the plot here. I started out by saying Apple is anticompetitive in plenty of areas. But that's not what the conversation is about. I pointed out that in this area , it doesn't appear to be. So I don't know why you keep pushing this PDF. It doesn't say anything about this specific area. I already checked. And if you don't care about what Firefox does, then I think it's clear you're not having thi…

[flagged]

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#408

Post by otterley » Sat, Jan 03, 2026, 1:20 AM UTC

leptons wrote: post #407

crazygringo wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have lost the plot here. I started out by saying Apple is anticompetitive in plenty of areas. But that's not what the conversation is about. I pointed out that in this area , it doesn't appear to be. So I don't know why you keep pushing this PDF. It doesn't say anything about this specific area. I already checked. And if you don't care about what Firefox does, then I think it's clear you're not having thi…

[flagged]

> I'm not sure how damaged your brain has to be

That’s enough. This sort of behavior isn’t tolerated here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#409

Post by crazygringo » Sat, Jan 03, 2026, 1:27 AM UTC

kelthuzad wrote: post #406

crazygringo wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but that is still not even remotely a conspiracy. It is a completely valid potential thesis I dunno, man. It's claiming a literal conspiracy between Google and Firefox to make Firefox worse. In reality, it's an outlandish proposition because Google already holds such high market share for Chrome, they need Firefox as a viable competitor to avoid antitrust concerns. The idea that they'd contractually (or behind-clos…

[flagged]

> Why are you switching to your main account to defend your alt?

Buddy, your sense of reality is warped if you think two accounts making similar arguments have to be the same person. They're not.

But have fun imagining whatever you want. Conspiracies are everywhere, I guess, if you have that kind of mindset...

Re: iOS allows alternative browser engines in Japan

#410

Post by kelthuzad » Sat, Jan 03, 2026, 1:41 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #409

kelthuzad wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Why are you switching to your main account to defend your alt? Buddy, your sense of reality is warped if you think two accounts making similar arguments have to be the same person. They're not. But have fun imagining whatever you want. Conspiracies are everywhere, I guess, if you have that kind of mindset...

[flagged]