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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#401

Post by rithdmc »

coldtea wrote: post #351
whstl wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but just because you can throw a metaphor around doesn't make it true. There is no "rule" in life that says that people have to be judgmental assholes to each other. Using a card game to justify the behavior is just a rationalization.

> There is no "rule" in life that says that people have to be judgmental assholes to each other. Apparently there is, which is why this judgement you speak of happens. It just happens to be a social rule, and you don't like it, but it's a rule nonetheless. Doesn't have to be an official rule, agreed upon, and signed by each participant, or some physical law. Hence, the card game metaphor has some merit. Like people t…

Being judgmental assholes to each other isn't a social rule. It's in no way the expectation of behavior.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#402

Post by micromacrofoot »

lazide wrote: post #137
micromacrofoot wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of influence is often manipulation... we see it all the time with "influencers" trying to illegally advertise to people by not disclosing sponsorships People influencing others are trying to manipulate their emotions or thoughts into feeling a certain way about something... We can look to the definitions themselves... influence: the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of som…

I think you might want to re-read all of this again. Manipulation is non-consensual and controlling influence, yes. That part is important. Just like the difference between a house and a jail is essentially if you are being forced to be there against your will or not. They both are structures people live in and that provide a degree of structure and protection, but one is generally considered okay or even good, and t…

I disagree. Short of wearing a blindfold and putting my fingers in my ears there are many opportunities for someone to influence me against my will every day. You have to be exposed to this sort of manipulation to exist in society.

This has gotten a little off-track into pedantry though, I agree.

The parent post's assertion that the author of this post is somehow using "tricks" and that it is unhealthy, is what I take issue with.

It's a bit of unfair framing to claim that people who naturally develop these "tricks" are somehow superior to those who have to learn them. By that reasoning people with poor social skills would be doomed to poor outcomes for the sake of some trick-free "pure" personality.

Or another way... if I take elocution and debate lessons to make my point better and use that to get what I want in life, is this "unhealthy"? I don't think most people would say so. In my eyes this is no different.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#404

Post by coldtea »

wedje wrote: post #390
coldtea wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goalposts for "sexism" have moved to the edge of the galaxy if people today think that's sexism. Parent says that "identity is socially-constructed", they defend trans people, they say it "isn't any less justifiable than being assigned good ol' football-playin', roughhousin', English class-hatin', red-blooded American manhood" - but the fact they said "presenting" as opposed to "being" a woman is sexism, as if th…

It is sexism, in that this promotes sexist stereotypes regarding how women should present themselves. There is similar sexism inherent in the concept of "manhood", as well.

lol

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#405

Post by majorchord »

immibis wrote: post #302
somenameforme wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say just friends either. The biggest leap I made in social stuff is to simply stop caring what other people think. If somebody doesn't like me, cool - there's plenty of other people. If they do? Awesome, because they're getting the 'real' me, so it's probably going to be a good relationship. Basically I think a lot of people's issues with social stuff starts with something analogous to a boy who never asks…

> If somebody doesn't like me, cool - there's plenty of other people And what if no one likes me?

I can tell you exactly why people don't like you.

You speak as if you are an expert on everything in the universe at all times. Way too much black-and-white thinking. And many people often strongly disagree with your statements... a great deal of your comments are quite often downvoted and/or flagged.

There is a reason you have been banned from several different platforms now. Disagreeing/arguing with their actions is not how you improve yourself, and you can't explain your way out of it, you have to want to change how you act, and work hard at it. You have to be ok with being wrong. Your weaponization of logic has destroyed your empathy. You are craving validation through technical dominance, but this just further isolates you/alienates others.

I think real intelligence by definition requires empathy and humility, which is typically the opposite of such dogmatism in my opinion. "As a rule, strong feelings about issues do not emerge from deep understanding."

The Dunning-Kruger effect also applies to smart people. You don't stop when you are estimating your ability correctly. As you learn more, you gain more awareness of your ignorance and continue being conservative with your self estimates.

Also you seem to like to claim that almost everything is illegal and then not back up your claims with any useful sources, instead telling people to look it up themselves or give vague non-answers like "it's in the German law code". That and most of your comments are just plain negative in general, and I think this ultimately stems from some kind of childhood trauma that you have not dealt with.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#406

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

coldtea wrote: post #348
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

The reductionist biological explanation might be obvious to you, but in the actual world, the reasoning and the moral condemnation of things like plastic surgery is never explicitly about giving false signals regarding one's reproductive fitness. Reasons "haters" cite are about vanity, narcissism, refusing to look your age, etc.

That too is pretty obvious from the same perspective: Admitting you only care about someone’s genes is itself considered shallow, so people make up other justifications based on other, more accepted values.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#407

Post by acuozzo »

animal531 wrote: post #294
acuozzo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

I myself also tend to do that, but that is a behavior that is seen by the majority/"normal" people as non-social, unless if you already know them very well or if you are the one initiating the conversation. Listening to people means that you actively listening and supporting them in their conversation, not bringing up your own angles to it. When you do that it is perceived by most people as you trying to one-up them…

> When you do that it is perceived by most people as you trying to one-up them in the conversation

This depends entirely on the content of your reply and how well-trained you are in social cues as well as other unspoken parts of conversation.

It's also not comprehensive advice. Of course you should first help the person on the other side of the conversation reach where they're intending to go in what they're saying.

My advice is more applicable to the "sequence points" of a conversation.

> Just walking into a conversation while trying to pivot it

Doing this would be foolish. You have to read the cues for when the time is right. You also need to develop the right conversational demeanor to pull it off. This necessitates practice.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#408

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

kubanczyk wrote: post #395
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

> Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise. Nay, artificial physical attractiveness is also a signal of reproductive fitness. It isn't a given. It's the subject's genes that made a brain that was able to design (and to arrange to pay for!) the improved attractiveness. It's not qualitatively different from brushing hair.

Yes, technically, having spare resources to devote to your own appearance is considered a positive signal, but it is an unreliable one, and often one not as valued by the people making the judgement. If there are many ways to signal wealth, a signal that has some intrinsic downside will lose its value if lots of people are sending the other wealth-signals.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#409

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

whstl wrote: post #308
YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say ‘somehow’ like the reasoning isn’t obvious. Physical attractiveness is a signal of reproductive fitness when it’s genetic, and not otherwise.

This is a bullshit rationalization for horrible behavior. The people doing the judging certainly aren't gonna reproduce with 99.99999% of the people being judged, and I'm being extremely generous here.

You might think that those people’s opinions don’t matter, but it turns out that ‘lots of other people value me highly’ is in itself a signal.

And yes, it is horrible, but if you want to solve a problem, you must first understand the problem, and ‘some people are just born with Evil in their hearts’ is not a very good sociological model.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#410

Post by acuozzo »

looperhacks wrote: post #388
acuozzo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

As someone who really struggled with social interactions (and still does at times, just not as bad), this fails already at the first two steps: > Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears How do I understand what is important? People say a lot of stuff, some important parts and some parts that are beside the point. Talking also involves identifying and reacting to the "important" bits, picking up the "wrong"…

> How do I understand what is important?

Operate under the assumption that the person on the other side of the conversation is under the delusion that every sentence they produce is gold.

Active listening = free points. Everyone wants to feel heard.

> but a struggling person might as well ask how they liked Sweden.

And sometimes this is the right question to ask, especially if the party on the other side of the conversation is giving cues suggesting that their memory of the accident is a painful one.

> I really struggled to even notice when it's "my turn" to talk.

Even highly-experienced conversationalists get this wrong at times. Sometimes the person with whom you're speaking has a weird cadence or is uncomfortable or...

---

Look, this is hard work. This requires literally years of deliberate practice, especially if you're on the Autism spectrum as both myself and my son are.

You will make mistakes. You will offend people. You will get depressed about having no charm/charisma. You will feel like the alien in the room.

Keep pushing forward. Force yourself to actively listen to conversations. Watch movies with magnetic characters and try to emulate their demeanor.

Don't beat yourself up. Embrace being the weird person for a while and find a group of weirdos just a bit less weird than yourself. Be vulnerable with them and get yourself a mentor. People, in my experience, love mentoring/teaching.

Just keep doing it. When you get good, it will pay dividends.

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