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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#401

Post by vladvasiliu »

charcircuit wrote: post #369
vladvasiliu wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s much framework can do about this. The same happens with Windows on HP and Dell laptops, except windows tends to quickly enter hibernation (if it doesn’t somehow hang and burn up your bag). We used to have better suspend before, when s3 was thing, on both Linux and windows. Maybe not as great as Macs, but way better than the current shitshow. Now I’m not saying pcs are great hardware, but I think…

>I don’t think there’s much framework can do The MacBook is an existence proof that there is something they can do.

My point was that it's probably the components themselves which don't consume little power, as opposed to the integration.

So, I guess Framework could start designing their own CPUs. I think having more competition in this area would be great!

Not sure how realistic this is, though.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#402

Post by acc348 »

chithanh wrote: post #386
acc348 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macbooks tend to last a very long time. MacBooks had historically tons of design issues with keyboards and GPUs. Which I guess can happen, but the problem with Apple is that they never admin anything until someone drags them to court and the out of warranty repair is always extremely expensive, usually not worth it. The battery replacement can also be extremely expensive, especially if you live in a country without…

The GPU solder joint issue was NVidia's fault. I remember also Dell and others were affected, and I think MacBooks used only AMD dGPUs afterwards. But otherwise, between the Butterfly keyboard, Flexgate, and placing the backlight driver voltage pin next to a data pin on the display connector (Louis Rossmann complained a lot about that one, as debris or moisture could easily cause a short and fry your CPU), indeed App…

Well they switched to AMD and had pretty much the same issue, known as "Radeongate" ...

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#403

Post by kokada »

lukeschlather wrote: post #293
worble wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't deny that suspend is an issue on Linux I've just never seen this as a major problem? I simply turn off my laptop and turn it on when I need it - boot times are less than a minute so it really isn't a issue for me, just flick the power switch, wait for a bit then I'm good to go.

My main use for laptops is as a notepad. If it takes a minute to start when I need it it's vastly inferior to a sheet of paper. If it can't remember what page I was on that's doubly so. Windows works more or less like a sheet of paper (though automatic reboots to apply security updates are a point in favor of paper that has no such issues.) And I often use my laptop for things where seconds matter. I've got things on…

For those use cases that I love my Chromebook. Underpowered, yes, but also it can basically sleep forever and also wakes up from sleep fast. Even if I need to turn it on if it is powered off it takes just a few seconds to boot.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#404

Post by yunohn »

karel-3d wrote: post #371
yunohn wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very minimum, omarchy and omakub already provide out of the box seamless fixes for all the common issues that are “fixed” but need tedious involved configuration nonetheless.

even the annoying OOM stuff that makes all OS stop to a crawl?

Haven’t checked, but luckily it’s just a PR away from being fixed for everyone using the Oma-distros.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#405

Post by b112 »

orbisvicis wrote: post #230
fpoling wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not understand why hibernate under secure boot is not implemented on Linux and this continues for years. It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people. But this is not obviously the case since systemd supports both and actively improving both. Note for me hibernation is a security measure and not about saving battery. I am traveling sometimes with the laptop and risk of theft is…

I have looked into this. It is possible, and documented on the Arch wiki. My main concern is constantly writing a large file to a small SSD.

Unless it's a really old SSD, lifetime is so massively extended over 15+ old SSDs, that it's not even a consideration any more. People use consumer grade SSDs for databases which last years, even when mostly full.

I expect many of the servers I have deployed, again consumer grade SSDs, would have more writes in a day than you in a year -- even with several suspends a day.

I cannot of course address the specific model you have, or the size of RAM you're suspending to swap space.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#406

Post by lenkite »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

This is a seriously annoying Linux problem that never get acknowledged by hardcore Desktop Linux fans. On any Linux thread on HN, one can argue till one is blue in the face, but they will always finally deflect with: it works fine for me on X hardware. Usually, the first response is that suspend works completely fine on Linux and it is Windows that is worse.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#407

Post by ang_cire »

charcircuit wrote: post #369
vladvasiliu wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s much framework can do about this. The same happens with Windows on HP and Dell laptops, except windows tends to quickly enter hibernation (if it doesn’t somehow hang and burn up your bag). We used to have better suspend before, when s3 was thing, on both Linux and windows. Maybe not as great as Macs, but way better than the current shitshow. Now I’m not saying pcs are great hardware, but I think…

>I don’t think there’s much framework can do The MacBook is an existence proof that there is something they can do.

I'm pretty sure your income is closer to Framework's revenue, than Frameworks's revenue is to Apple's.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#408

Post by gwd »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

What's exasperating is that this has been going on for literally 20 years:

> Pretty much exactly 19 years ago I got on a train to Oxford and made Mark Shuttleworth's laptop successfully suspend and resume using ACPI and that was the turning point in my entire career [1]

[1] https://nondeterministic.computer/@mjg59/111249766634985812

10 years after that I bought a Macbook Air, and haven't gone back to Linux on a laptop since.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#409

Post by saagarjha »

bzzzt wrote: post #394
izacus wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just plainly not true. Apple calls it "Safe Sleep" ( https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh10328/mac ) and you get a progress bar when it wakes from it. Yes, even on magical Ms.

Interesting, never heard of that specific mode before. Does it save the entire RAM or just the OS state and open files?

It's proper hibernation with all your RAM

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#410

Post by saagarjha »

osigurdson wrote: post #305
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

Is the Mac actually hibernating though?

Typically a Mac will only hibernate if you ask it to or it's out of battery.
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