Live data from Hacker News

The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

sas.upenn.edu

401–409 of 409 posts

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#401
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an evolutionary bio professor in college say this: "you don't understand evolution until you understand how contraception could lead to overpopulation." Anything placed in the path of reproduction is a barrier to be overcome. If there is anything in the human genome that correlates with a positive desire to choose to have children, we are selecting hard for that right now. We may see a bottleneck this century a…

Japan’s population dropped rapidly before contraception was allowed in due to abortion. Abortion beats a strong selection pressure.

> Abortion beats a strong selection pressure.

Only within a lifetime.

Over several generations, it doesn't beat selection pressure, is selection pressure: people who want (or are willing to get) abortions get selected against.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#402
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that collapses in a negative population growth environment is passive earnings from interest and asset appreciation, retirement, and to some extent social welfare states. The whole idea of things like social security is predicated on a growing population paying for the elderly. It's also very, very bearish for things like real estate long term. We are probably still in a real estate bubble. I suppose I've n…

You can retire the other way around - since you need roughly $20 saved for every dollar you need in retirement, reducing expenses by a dollar is as good as saving $20.

That presumes knowing in advance what the dollar can buy you.

Here's a reductio ad absurdum: a couple live alone on an isolated island, they have and raise one child, and when they reach 67 they stop working and expect their progeny to provide for them as they were provided for in childhood.

Two parents provided for three people, became three adults providing for three people, became one adult providing for three people.

And when that kid reaches 67 and also decides to stop working? Now nobody's around to provide for them, so nothing is provided.

(What will happen in the non-reductio case is much more complex and unpredictable, between the never-ending potential of nuclear wars, and the ongoing but never guaranteed promise of technological progress currently dangling AI and robotics before us like a laser pointer to a cat…)

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#403
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have any structured references saved, sorry. My understanding is that the only real correlation is years in education, but this is at the national level; the very rich and very poor (which imperfectly correlates with level of education attained) tend to have more children than the middle class, but fertility rates are down across every income level. What this means is that if you look at two countries and see…

At some point years of education crimps into childbearing years - I know two women who could easily have obtained their degree even after having a child, but quickly got to a “fuck this shit I’m a mom” and left the program never to return. I don’t even know if things like FMLA apply to college classes.

This was my theory initially but it doesn’t pan out due to the decline being observed among all income and education levels; you would also expect to observe a steeper decline among women with advanced degrees, but women with master’s degrees and doctorates actually have a slightly higher fertility rate than those with just a bachelor’s degree. Taking even 5 years at college still gives a woman around 15 to 20 years to find a partner and have children.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you that there is a lot of overhead and waste in the healthcare industry and government in general. But this insight is, to me, just not really actionable. Almost every large organisation seems to end up with a good amount of bloat/overhead sooner or later, and this even includes former super-lean and super-focused enterprises (Intel, Google, AWS, ...), so I don't see how you could ever sidestep this…

Every large organization does indeed accumulate bloat/overhead sooner or later. For a profit making company, this means it loses its competitiveness and then falls. For government, this means it gets a bigger budget. The leaded gasoline example is also a disaster. That does not generalize to every regulation being good. For example, regulations prevent victims of the Palisades fire from rebuilding. For another exampl…

> For a profit making company, this means it loses its competitiveness and then falls. For government, this means it gets a bigger budget.

I would argue that with companies, the expected outcome is that they accumulate and then stabilize at a "typical" level of bloat. For software, Google is a good example: Much more bloated than they used to be, but still competitive enough, and looking stable.

Governments also have some ways to de-bloat, mostly from internal and external pressure (like Greece).

I think that consistently getting services at no-bloat prices is just not realistic in general over longer timeframes; Netflix, Google, Uber, Amazon, ... give countless examples of excellent early price/quality ratios that got inevitably worse over time.

My hypothesis is that for our current understanding of what a government is supposed to provided (which did expand significantly since WW2, but mostly for good reasons) we have now reached a "bloat-stable" budget, and there is just no "easy" way to slash this budget without hurting the services (even though in a hypothetical bloat-free environment these could be provided for less).

Here is interesting data which seems to kinda support my point, with government spending as GDP percentage for the US, Germany (less GDP/capita) and Switzerland (more GDP/capita): You can see budgets rising post WW2 across the board, and then stabilizing in the 30-40% range (slightly higher for the poorest country, which makes sense). I would have honestly expected to see those trending up even for the last decades (which they don't really) and Covid was also less prominent than I would have assumed:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/government-spending-vs-gd...

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every large organization does indeed accumulate bloat/overhead sooner or later. For a profit making company, this means it loses its competitiveness and then falls. For government, this means it gets a bigger budget. The leaded gasoline example is also a disaster. That does not generalize to every regulation being good. For example, regulations prevent victims of the Palisades fire from rebuilding. For another exampl…

> For a profit making company, this means it loses its competitiveness and then falls. For government, this means it gets a bigger budget. I would argue that with companies, the expected outcome is that they accumulate and then stabilize at a "typical" level of bloat. For software, Google is a good example: Much more bloated than they used to be, but still competitive enough, and looking stable. Governments also have…

Google is currently in big trouble because AI is taking away their advertising business.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#406
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A moment's thought will make clear why. Take a moment and elaborate, please.

I have a comment above about access to capital, which is much easier if you already have it, so the rich have more access than the poor to the main tool of capitalism. But another example, equity: If I am raising money for my startup, and I have no traack record (I'm poor in this context) and Sam is doing the same after Sam made a successful exit from their last startup, who would you invest in, all else equal, Sam o…

There are many books on Amazon about starting a business with no capital.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#407
post #2

Paul Ehrlich was almost exactly wrong about everything, but he continues to frame the discourse to a ridiculous degree. I'm not sure what the magic pixie dust is that allows people to be this wrong and still have credibility.

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2%80%93Ehrlich_wager

Most never get held to account for their wrong predictions. But he seems a particularly egregious case.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strange take, evolution resulted in sex as the means to creating the next set of offspring.

Evolution is a process. It can't assign a purpose to anything, because "purpose" doesn't exist outside the minds of people, similar to "justice" and "hope." The "purpose" of sex is whatever we choose it to be.

The purpose of bird wings is to salute to their superiors.

Re: The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf]

#409
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is fertility so low in Iran then? Or very Catholic Poland? It does not seem to correlate strongly with religion or belief systems. The strongest correlation I see is urbanization. People in cities don’t have kids as much.

Educated women tend to have fewer children. (Also fewer child deaths)

Educated men also father fewer children. Takes two. Educated people with the means will choose when to reproduce.
Post reply on HN