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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#401

Post by thebiss »

ysavir wrote: post #338
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

I agree with your take on the purpose of schools and that smartphones contribute little. But my concern is that actions like these teach students an additional lesson: That it's okay to coerce people into specific actions or forfeitures if it serves your purposes. Children and teens absorb a lot, and while they don't always absorb the contents of their lectures, they do typically absorb how they're treated and how th…

> [...] how we can restructure our approach to education so that students would actually feel encouraged to participate and ignore their smartphones.

Is there any precedent for this that we can model / reproduce? Any country or region where students are considered academically successful, while having unrestricted access to the internet in their pocket?

If it exists, it would be very worthwhile to understand what gives those students such strong self control. Do they do it on their own? Are they somehow admonished/shunned publicly for that behavior?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#402

Post by AAAAaccountAAAA »

vitro wrote: post #359
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

But why smartphone then? Simple button phone would suffice.

Have you used any of the recent button phones? They are not particularly dependable things in my experience.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#403

Post by [deleted] »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

[deleted]

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#404

Post by Teever »

nabla9 wrote: post #150

It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. Current legislation allows the teacher to tell a student to put their phone away in a pocket or backpack, for example, where it will not be a distraction. The use of phones during breaks cannot be completely banned, as students have fundamental rights. The Constitution guarantees everyone…

Does this mean that those little bags that some performers have their audience members put their phones into at their shows are illegal in Finland?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#405

Post by badc0ffee »

intellectronica wrote: post #293

If I were a Finnish child I would start working hard on getting my parents to emigrate, or at least send me on an extended exchange program to a country where I can still use modern tech to connect to the global network, meet other likeminded people, have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and learn any subject I'm interested in.

Would you really need to be doing that during school hours though? When would you even have time to do any of that anyway, outside of your lunch break?

That's setting aside that "have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and learn any subject I'm interested in" could mean Wikipedia, or it could mean short-form, attention-wrecking candy on Tiktok.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#406

Post by const_cast »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

None of these require a smartphone. There's no reason to jump to the most extreme solution where there are cheap, addiction-free solutions available.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#407

Post by const_cast »

GuB-42 wrote: post #50
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

The thing is that using a smartphone is a _very easy_ skill. I mean, who are we kidding. These devices are set up such that the stupidest person can use them.

It's not 1995 anymore and we aren't walking in a line to the computer lab. These things are idiot-proof. You really don't need hours of practice everyday to learn how to use them.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#408

Post by psunavy03 »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #397
II2II wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too early to make that claim. There are multiple branches and levels of government to deal with situations like this. They have worked in the past for smaller scale violations. They should work in the present for larger scale violations. The problem is that it takes time, it always took time, so a lot of people are going to get hurt in the process. (Granted, it is also important for people to fight for their rig…

> current government is pushing the limits The Republicans* are. Important to be factually accurate here’s the Democrats have never done anything remotely this lawless and authoritarian before.

. . . aside from supporting slavery and then the Dixiecrats opposing civil rights, you mean? If you actually look at American history, the ugly parts are ultimately bipartisan.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#409

Post by const_cast »

tejohnso wrote: post #176
constantcrying wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I wrote below. My most memorable math class was a teacher failing to explain fractions to me, what later became obvious to me was that the teacher did not understand fractions either. I am sure you want to blame me for this, but somehow I went to university and got a degree in (applied) mathematics. So I doubt it was some fundamental problem with me. Everybody is upset when someone tells them they fail at their jo…

Incompetence is rampant in government jobs. Schools aren't technically government jobs, but there are many similarities in terms of incentives, hiring practice, dismissal difficulty, talent pool, etc. In any normal (private sector) job, if you can't perform the basic job requirements you get fired or retrained. Maybe you're moved to a different area that better suits your skill set. But you don't just sit in a positi…

Most teachers are actually quite good and they're actively being held back by curriculum and being stripped of their autonomy.

I really, truly don't know how people form this opinion. Teachers are trained professionals with certifications and a degree. They know what they're doing. It's extremely likely they're far more educated in the subject matter they teach than you are.

Now, they're not miracle workers. Some parents expect little Timmy reading at a second grade level in Middle School to magically get great scores on his end of year exams. It doesn't work that way.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#410

Post by const_cast »

DocTomoe wrote: post #258
kube-system wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did not take me twelve years to learn to read and write. It takes people twelve years to learn to read and write at a 12th grade level. You could study it for another 4 or more years at university if you wanted to develop your skills further. > What made me good at reading was reading books outside of school. This is your personal experience. I learned to read and write quite well at school and was well-prepared…

> It takes people twelve years to learn to read and write at a 12th grade level. Nah. You are mixing up the skill 'writing glyphs on a piece of paper and retrieving that information via optical means' with 'being well-grounded in a wide array of subjects so you can express an idea in a way that is mentally stimulating to a potential reader'. Neither takes 12 years to learn. The first, we teach within a year, at most.…

We most definitely teach number 2. That's what English class is - you read books, plays, maybe documents, and then you write essays on them. You need to be concise, persuasive, have a unique voice.

Just because you, and other's, did not pay attention or were not good writers, does not mean we don't teach that. We do, for years.

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