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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#171

Post by FinnLobsien »

zx90 wrote: post #162
FinnLobsien wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right in a way because if school wants to prepare kids for work, then they'll have to get competent with tech. But at the same time, I think banning smartphones is perfectly fine because you can still use computers and stuff. It's not like they're going back to quills and ink. Smartphones fry your attention span and enable bullying. And if parents want to have emergency contact, you can always have a s…

Using a dumb-phone is the reason a pre-teen neighbor of mine got bullied. So much that she ended up stealing money to get herself a smartphone. Shortly afterwards the parents folded and became less strict with their anti-consumerism stance.

yeah but isn't that precisely what banning smartphones in schools fixes? Nobody said anything about outside of school.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#172

Post by RHSeeger »

PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her

- If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school

- If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time

- If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it

- etc, etc, etc

There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets punished with phone removal, we generally still let her bring it to school.

The fact that the phone doesn't contribute to the schooling itself (although it does when she forgets something she needs for school) doesn't mean that it doesn't contribute to QOL overall by being with her at school.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#173

Post by piva00 »

constantcrying wrote: post #76
technothrasher wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned plenty in primary and secondary school. So has my son, who is about to graduate high school and attend university in the fall. Perhaps you went to bad schools, or the school's environment just didn't fit you. That's an argument for better and more adaptable schools, not a condemnation of the concept of mandatory public education.

The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster. Obviously the fault for that lies with the school system. My school was an average school for students targeting a university degree and I did quite well compared to my peers.

The foundation you needed to even attend university was set during basic schooling. As much as you think you "learnt nothing" I don't think there's a way for you to have gone through university by learning absolutely nothing in basic schooling.

Should schools be reformed to better align to contemporary ways of living? Of course, I'm all onboard to have a better education system, finding ways to foster kids inherent curiosities in a less strict and authoritarian way, finding new systems that are both scalable while being more free for kids to pursue their interests at their own rate, and finding a way where every kid might have a decent shared baseline of knowledge to go on into their adult lives.

It doesn't mean tearing down all education, or that current education is useless and teaches nothing. It's inadequate but it's the most valuable asset any society can have, finding better ways to do it is a natural progression to improve it.

I wish the education system had allowed me to not waste countless hours in classrooms listening to lectures that I either had already learned through autodidacticism, or that I wasn't interested in at that moment in time, I had to "re-learn" a bunch of material that was presented in classrooms but I was too uninterested to focus on it at that moment. Still, I don't think it was a total failure, just an education model with flaws that needs to be fixed.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#174

Post by fsloth »

constantcrying wrote: post #23
brainzap wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the goal of school and what it is used for are different thing. School is childcare

[flagged]

Child care? This is legally required school attendance for under 18 year olds.

Most school days are way shorter than that. The curriculum seems to keep my kids intellectually engaged. Commenting as a finn.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#175

Post by immibis »

sofixa wrote: post #11
constantcrying wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

> There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing Do you think that was because their methods were bad, you didn't bother and they couldn't force you, or that their methods were not adapted to the way you learn? Also, I'd find it surprising if you really learned nothing. From what I know of German schooling from people who went through it, you certainly learned at least…

From what I know about Germany, they don't teach anything about the depths humans can go or how to prevent them recurring. They seem to just learn the Nazis were evil people and as long as you're not one of those, similarly evil things can never happen again. Also because only evil people can do evil things, calling out an evil thing is illegal because it implies someone involved is evil and that's an attack on their honour.

See Germany-Palestine relations. One third of weapons used in the Gaza war are paid for by Germany, and the remaining two thirds by the USA. Other countries contribute negligibly.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#176

Post by tejohnso »

constantcrying wrote: post #43
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know several teachers. So these sorts of comments are always funny. I know math teachers who lack support but continuously attempt to present topics from different POV because some students don’t get it. So some self proclaimed smart person “learned nothing”, and therefore school is a waste of time. At the same time, ignoring that maybe a school or system is indeed not prepared to handle some individuals (which is…

As I wrote below. My most memorable math class was a teacher failing to explain fractions to me, what later became obvious to me was that the teacher did not understand fractions either. I am sure you want to blame me for this, but somehow I went to university and got a degree in (applied) mathematics. So I doubt it was some fundamental problem with me. Everybody is upset when someone tells them they fail at their jo…

Incompetence is rampant in government jobs. Schools aren't technically government jobs, but there are many similarities in terms of incentives, hiring practice, dismissal difficulty, talent pool, etc.

In any normal (private sector) job, if you can't perform the basic job requirements you get fired or retrained. Maybe you're moved to a different area that better suits your skill set. But you don't just sit in a position for 20 years screwing it up day after day as you see in government / lower education.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#177

Post by stevage »

Kaethar wrote: post #30

I wonder if there's any alternatives to this that teach actual discipline when it comes to phones. Methods that actually attack the reason kids are using phones in school (boredom, social anxiety, uninterested in school etc.).

What I hear from teachers is they are constantly bombarded by notifications. They aren't idly playing on their phones. They're constantly responding to things happening.

There's seriously no alternative to banning them, and I don't even see the interest in trying.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#178

Post by asadotzler »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #138

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

Computing devices could have done that except the people making them built hellscapes with black hole level gravity to sell us shit we don't need so now we have to treat computing devices like cigarettes and begin limiting their use in meaningful ways and teaching society to shun them, not because they couldn't be amazing, but because they are not now and probably won't be given Big Tech's stranglehold and inherent evil.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#179

Post by ecshafer »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#180

Post by zdragnar »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

It can stay in her locker when she is in class, no?
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