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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#401

Post by chongli »

calmbell wrote: post #239
areoform wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft from whom and how? Are you telling me that our culture should be deprived of the idea of Indiana Jones and the feelings that character inspires in all of us forever just because a corporation owns the asset? Indiana Jones is 44 years old. When are we allowed to remix, recreate and expand on this like humanity has done since humans first started sitting down next to a fire and telling stories? edit: this reminds…

"idea of Indiana Jones and the feelings that character inspires in all of us forever just because a corporation owns the asset" is very different from the almost exact image of Indiana Jones.

Exactly. The idea of Indiana Jones, the adventurer archaeologist more at home throwing a punch than reading a book, is neither owned by nor unique to Lucasfilm (Disney). There is a ton of media out there featuring this trope character [1]. Yes, the trope is overwhelmingly associated with the image of Harrison Ford in a fedora within the public consciousness, but copyright does not apply to abstract ideas such as tropes.

Some great video games to feature adventurer archaeologists:

* NetHack (One of the best roles in the game)

* Tomb Raider series (Lara Croft is a bona fide archaeologist)

* Uncharted series (Nathan Drake is more of a treasure hunter but he becomes an archaeologist when he retires from adventuring)

* Professor Layton series

* La-Mulana series (very obviously inspired by Indiana Jones, but not derivative)

* Spelunky (inspired by La-Mulana)

[1] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdventurerArchae...

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#402

Post by Avicebron »

singleshot_ wrote: post #309
dcow wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do restaurants work, then? You can’t copyright a recipe. Instructions can’t generally be copyrighted, otherwise someone would own the fastest route from A to B and charge every person who used it. The whole idea of intellectual property gets really weird when you try to pinpoint what exactly is being owned. I do not agree with your conjecture that big corps would win by default. Ask why would people need protecti…

It’s more reasonable to say that the idea of intellectual property is challenging for nonlawyers because of the difficulty in understanding ownership not as one thing, but as a bundle of various elements of control, exclusion, obligation, or entitlement, even some of which spring into existence out of nowhere. In other words, the challenge is not to understand “what exactly is being owned,” and instead, to understand…

> what exactly being owned is.

Thank you, this is beautifully put and very astute. Does a recipe, a culmination of a lifetime of experience, technique, trials, errors, and luck constitute a form of someone/thing's person-hood such that it can be Intellectual Property.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#403

Post by [deleted] »

mlsu wrote: post #137

I was really hoping that the conversation around AI art would at least be partially centered on the perhaps now dated "2008 pirate party" idea that intellectual property, the royalty system, the draconian copyright laws that we have today are deeply silly, rooted in a fiction, and used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. Unfortunately, i…

[deleted]

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#404

Post by [deleted] »

jordigh wrote: post #385

> copywritten This syntactic mistake is driving me nuts in the article is driving me nuts. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the the word means. It's "copy right ". It's about the rights to copy. The past participle is "copyrighted", someone has already claimed the rights to copy it, so you can't also have those rights. The rights belong to someone else. If you remember that copyright is about rights that a…

[deleted]

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#405

Post by [deleted] »

armchairhacker wrote: post #190

You're allowed to draw IP and share your drawings. You're allowed to screenshot and photoshop IP. You're allowed to sell tools that help others draw and photoshop IP*. You're not allowed to sell these drawings and photoshops. I don't see why an AI can't generate IP, even if the AI is being sold. What's not allowed is selling the generated IP. Style is even more permissive: you're allowed to sell something in any styl…

[deleted]

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#406

Post by evdubs »

imgabe wrote: post #356
rescripting wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I pay for ChatGPT and ask for copyrighted images, is that selling the generated IP?

The image the AI generates is not copyrighted (except maybe by OpenAI I guess) unless it ends up being an exact duplicate of an existing image. Copyright applies to a specific work. The character may be trademarked like Mickey Mouse, but that is a different IP protection.

"Substantially similar" is the standard, not "exact duplicate".

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#407

Post by dcow »

awesome_dude wrote: post #394
dcow wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and notably the source recipe can’t be copyrighted. Trade secrets and recipes are not copyrightable. That’s the point. We have entire vastly profitable industries built around protection of trade secrets, with no copyright in play. Competing to make make the best cola flavored beverage or the best burrito is a thing . Competing to make the best rendition of Snow White, is not . What’s the rub? They don’t seem th…

How does someone close source a book?

If the book is the compiled work, then the source of a book is the author's creative process. And certainly that isn't open to all simply by purchasing the book.

But less obtusely: you don't copyright a book--which is why knowledge, language, literature should not be closed source. We'd have to find a different model to support authors than trying to prevent people from copying books. Patreon style models where you subscribe and get behind the scenes access to the creative process, additional content, early access, etc. seem to work well as do sponsorship models like YT where the more viewers you draw the more you get paid, rather than a fixed fee per individual to watch a video. And, simply pay-what-you-want based models where everyone understands they can contribute in a way that matches the value to them and their means also work. One of the strongest arguments for piracy is that the pirate would never have paid $700 for Photoshop in the first place so the value "lost" isn't real and never would have been realized by the author(s). (Note this argument doesn't work for petty theft of physical property because the thief deprives the owner of tangible property.)

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#408

Post by CaptainFever »

bawolff wrote: post #133

Its kind of weird how everyone is complaining about copyright infringemet in memes now. Memes are pretty inherently derrivative. They were always someone elses work. The picard face palm meme was obviously taken from star trek. All your base is obviously from that video game. Repurposing someone else's work with new meaning is basically what a meme is. Why do we suddenly care now?

I believe it's because AI hatred is quite trendy now. It's true though, memes were always copyright infringement; it's just that no one bothered to sue for it.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#409

Post by echelon »

dcow wrote: post #292
echelon wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original claim is false, > intellectual property [...] used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. There's nothing about IP which prevents you from creating your own. There are, in fact, a near infinite number of things you can create. More things than there exist stars in our galaxy. The problem with ideas is that they have to be good.…

> We won't need Disney to give us their opinion on Star Wars - we can make our own. Disney would say that you can’t. And in the current copyright regime, it’s not unlikely that they’d convince the court that they’re right.

> Disney would say that you can’t.

Disney won't have any control. I can already generate images and videos locally on my hardware.

Maybe they'll try to stop distribution? There will be quite a lot of people making these, though.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#410

Post by jauntywundrkind »

areoform wrote: post #188
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #45

Obviously a horrible hideous theft machine. One thing I would say, it's interesting to consider what would make this not so obviously bad. Like, we could ask AI to assess the physical attributes of the characters it generated. Then ask it to permute some of those attributes. Generate some random tweaks: ok but brawy, short, and a different descent. Do similarly on some clothing colors. Change the game. Hit the "rando…

Theft from whom and how? Are you telling me that our culture should be deprived of the idea of Indiana Jones and the feelings that character inspires in all of us forever just because a corporation owns the asset? Indiana Jones is 44 years old. When are we allowed to remix, recreate and expand on this like humanity has done since humans first started sitting down next to a fire and telling stories? edit: this reminds…

Its kind of funny that everyone is harping this way or that way about IP.

This is a kind of strange comment for me to read. Because imby tone it sounds like a rebuttal? But by content, it agrees with a core thing I said about myself:

> and as someone who thinks IP is itself incredibly ripping off humanity & should be vastly scoped down, it's important to me to not rest my arguments on IP violations

What's just such a nightmare to me is that the tech is so normative. So horribly normative. This article shows that AI again and again reproduced only the known, only the already imagined. Its not that it's IP theft that rubs me so so wrong, it's that it's entirely bankrupt & uncreative, so very stuck. All this power! And yet!

You speak at what disgusts me yourself!

> When are we allowed to remix, recreate and expand on this like humanity has done

The machine could be imagining all kinds of Indianas. Of all different remixed recreated expanded forms. But this pictures are 100% anything but that. They're Indiana frozen in Carbonite. They are the driest saddest prison of the past. And call into question the validity of AI entirely, show something greviously missing.

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