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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#401

Post by landswipe »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #39

I had lunch, not too long ago, with a senior executive of a silicon valley tech company that was moaning about how much of a pain it was to get people to come into the office and how it felt like things would never return to the way they were. And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily. When they asked what this magic bullet was I said, "Go back to offices,…

I worked for over 20 years in open office environments that were thoughtfully laid out with over 9m^2 space between stations. I then changed to a company where it seems 'space was a premium' with a dense open plan workspace with different teams mixed in the same bull pen and it is absolutely horrendous. There are specific people that don't take social cues like turning back to your monitor when you want to try and focus on something, yet continue to chit-chat all day. I can't believe the c-levels don't see this as a problem. The WFH policy is still reasonable but I have heard the occasional "see... this is why Elon is strict on RTO for collaboration" and I just scoff internally as I know they are desperate to revert it all. Fundamentally there is a huge issue of trust in these organisations, mostly driven by insecure egocentric managers, and I think that trust is satiated only through fear and subjugation of the employee, and more often than not a fallacy - if they go completely RTO I am looking around and/or changing careers.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#402

Post by prasoonds »

Tomte wrote: post #311
azmodeus wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you can tax deduct your rent for an office room with a door and a proportion of your utilities for the office

Only if you don't use the room for anything except work. You've got a computer in there that you're also using for private stuff? Not tax-deductible anymore. Private books on the bookshelf? Not tax-deductible anymore. You've got a wardrobe with some clothes you're only accessing once per season (to store off-season clothes)? Not tax-deductible anymore.

This is correct and I'm not sure why it's been downvoted. In Germany, you'd better only every use the work-room for work only. As people have pointed out, you're not likely to get audited for this but often, with apartments, it can be quite obvious that you're using the space for non-work stuff too (for eg, if you're living in a 50 sqm apartment, it's pretty easy to say that you can't possibly have a dedicated work only room).

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#403

Post by Pigalowda »

petre wrote: post #385
Hendrikto wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another nation that is passionate about their stuff are Italians At least where I am from, Italians have a reputation for shoddy products, laziness, and not caring. As you say: They are happy as long as the facade looks good. Behind the scenes is a mess.

You're probably from Germany, the Nederlands or Denmark then. It's a common Northern European prejudice to consider southerners "lazy".

Yea, Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks are some of the hardest working people in the world..

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#404

Post by itronitron »

zuminator wrote: post #268
itronitron wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that if the companies are locked into their office leases then that is a sunk cost, and companies requiring employees to return to the office in order to justify that expense is an example of decision making under a sunk-cost fallacy. I don't know why the author doesn't point that out in the article, hence my pedantic tone which some have noted.

Because utilizing a sunk cost isn't a fallacy. Believing that you should utilize a sunk cost isn't a fallacy, either. As you said earlier, it becomes a fallacy when your belief is mistaken , that is, when you continue to utilize or invest in the sunk costs despite the cognizable fact that doing so is a net detriment. But how can the author make a reasoned determination of whether or not these business decisions are d…

The sunk cost fallacy applies to more situations than just those that may incur additional investments, although that is how it is often explained.

For example, suppose I have two desks that I can work at...

Desk A is a rental that costs me $100 per month and I am locked into that contract for the next year.

Desk B I've had for years and it cost me nothing as it was given to me by a neighbor when they moved into a retirement community.

Both desks happen to be from the same manufacturer and are functionally identical.

Choosing to use Desk A because it cost $1200 more than Desk B is an example of the sunk cost fallacy.

I agree that the author doesn't have all the information, and they're just quoting an executive (Kacher). And it's completely possible that Kacher is just making assumptions or excuses about the thought process for the companies pushing RTO.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#405

Post by xivzgrev »

Poor executives! If only there had been some way to know employees would be unhappy about it /s

On another note, I found this note curious - this would imply that offices should be 70-80% full not half full. May be a bias in their survey data! “59% of full-time employees are back to being 100% on-site, while 29% are in a hybrid arrangement and 12% are completely remote, according to new data from WFH Research. Offices are still only half full compared to their pre-pandemic occupancy.“

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#406

Post by SoftTalker »

sneak wrote: post #321
SoftTalker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. Multi-day work offsites are the worst. Along with conferences. You have to make arrangements to be away, (try to) sleep in a hotel room, end up eating and drinking too much, getting a workout in is nearly impossible, they just completely disrupt all your routines and responsibilities.

It sounds like you are perhaps just inexperienced at traveling, or don't like it. All of your complaints are (usually) easily solved by experienced travelers. It's okay to not like travel, but it doesn't condemn the concept of a weeklong company offsite a couple times a year.

I'm not crazy about travel, that is true. But I'd concede it might be worth it if the offsite or conference provided exceptional value. I my experience, they don't. Never had an offsite meeting where the actual information being communicated could not have just been in an email. The social component of it is something I'd rather manage for myself on my schedule and with people of my choosing. Work relationships should be professional and collegial, I don't need or want to be in an egg race or play charades or go hiking or do some other stupid "team building activity" with Betty from accounting.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#407

Post by whywhywhywhy »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

> this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee

It's not a straw-man, I've seen behavior in the past year that I've never seen in my entire career things as absurd as someone working 7 other jobs while pretending to work for us.

Frankly it isn't worth the risk or waste of time or money anymore. Thankfully just by saying you need to be in the office a few days a week will weed out 90% of timewasters.

>employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person.

Employers don't owe you a living, you're welcome to go work somewhere that's fine with you not showing up.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#408

Post by dv_dt »

csomar wrote: post #219
bluefirebrand wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no one orchestrating this. I think there are thousands of people orchestrating this, independently.

That's kinda what an emerging phenomena is.

Not if it’s being orchestrated on lines of class And wealth

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#409

Post by n4r9 »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #407
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

> this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee It's not a straw-man, I've seen behavior in the past year that I've never seen in my entire career things as absurd as someone working 7 other jobs while pretending to work for us. Frankly it isn't worth the risk or waste of time or money anymore. Thankfully just by saying you need to be in the office a few days a week will weed out 90% of timewasters. >employers who ha…

> someone working 7 other jobs while pretending to work for us... Thankfully just by saying you need to be in the office a few days a week will weed out 90% of timewasters

Either they're not producing enough output to warrant their salary - in which case you have good grounds to fire them regardless - or they're perfectly productive - in which case why does it matter?

The biggest issue many managers have is that they have no idea how to measure employee output, separately from time spent at the desk imor in meetings.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#410

Post by caliwagon »

darth_avocado wrote: post #237
schwartzworld wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet lots of those who stay are the visa slaves who aren't as comfortable with the threat of unemployment as domestic workers would be.

At Twitter, all the visa folks left, only domestic workers stuck around. I know it’s a common argument, but unfortunately not as true.

That is interesting, do you have more info on this, or is it anecdotal?
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