Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 835 posts

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#401

Post by intrasight »

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

As a "Generation X" near the Boomer boundary, I just can't stop being shocked by "average car is $47k". When I was a teen, my parents did rental investing, owned about a dozen properties, and had never paid more than $30k for a property. I'm a well-compensated tech worker, and have no shame in driving my 2004 Volvo that I bought used 16 years ago. Had a second car for a while. A 2005 Camry that I bought for $5000 in 2017. Sold it last year for $5000.

Advice to younger generation: forego that shiny toy and invest your hard-earned money.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#402

Post by kspacewalk2 »

taylodl wrote: post #361
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A brand new Honda Civic comes in at $25k. https://automobiles.honda.com/civic

That moves the monthly cost from $780 to $740. That's still an expensive proposition

Keep moving the cost down by getting progressively older cars until you hit the price you can afford.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#403

Post by jtr1 »

thesuitonym wrote: post #330
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

>I don't get the emotional association of freedom that previous generations did. Previous generations would just go out for a ride, take the car out on Sunday and and enjoy the scenery. We just don't do that anymore, either because we're more concerned about the environmental effects of driving, or that we just have more interesting things to do. Not to mention, when this idea of "the freedom of a car" came about, ev…

> Previous generations would just go out for a ride, take the car out on Sunday and and enjoy the scenery. We just don't do that anymore, either because we're more concerned about the environmental effects of driving, or that we just have more interesting things to do.

I'm also an older millennial and like GP have no emotional attachment to cars. I also mildly resent my dependence on them, having traveled in places with fantastic public transport. I find them lonely and isolating.

I agree about the enviromental cost and other forms of entertainment. I think most of the rest can be explained by the combination of novelty + nostalgia for previous generations. Older Boomers caught the upswing out the highway act when there were new roads everywhere and an explosion of innovation in car design. The country wasn't yet totally built to enforce car ownership via sprawl, so I imagine a nice afternoon drive in the country was a thing many people enjoyed and created fond memories around.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#404

Post by atoav »

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

> The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that.

As young person who has fallen out of love with cars (despite once having earned my money driving): It is not as simple as that.

Money plays a huge role for sure, and the more you live in an environment where cars are needed the more this is true. But living in a big european city I can assure you that for most people my age not owning a car isn't a thing you do because you couldn't afford one. The benefits of owning a car just don't outweight the cost of having to constantly think of caring for it.

Most of my daily mobility I can do on foot and with a bicycle, with the benefit that my commute takes half the time of a typical rush hour commute for the same route. I need a car if I need to transport something which is roughly once every 3 to 4 months and then renting one is a good option.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#405

Post by zip1234 »

thesuitonym wrote: post #330
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

>I don't get the emotional association of freedom that previous generations did. Previous generations would just go out for a ride, take the car out on Sunday and and enjoy the scenery. We just don't do that anymore, either because we're more concerned about the environmental effects of driving, or that we just have more interesting things to do. Not to mention, when this idea of "the freedom of a car" came about, ev…

Cars are a classic "tragedy of the commons" due to how much space they take up and the infrastructure they take up. The places where it might've been 'nice to go for a drive' are not that way anymore because they have changed by everyone having a car. The windy country roads without anyone living on them are now filled with people that 'want to live in the country' but ironically do not because everyone wanted that.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#406

Post by smrtinsert »

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

It's also a tacky and gaudy display of wealth just for a rapidly depreciating asset built at an environmental cost for a function a lot of us don't need that much. I'm not young, but I don't care about cars in the slightest and can't wait for a post car society whatever that might look like.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#407

Post by throwaway22032 »

IME this is simply because young people are poor and have no use for the car.

If you live in a single room in a house in London, barely go outdoors, and have one shelf in a fridge, then a car is just far less useful to you as a concept.

If you live in a house and you go on outdoor adventures often then it's a daily thing. I mean I transport wood, tools, large amounts of groceries, etc on a near daily basis.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#408

Post by zeku »

sokoloff wrote: post #372
taylodl wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That helps a little, but still makes care ownership prohibitively expensive for young people. You're still looking at $350 per month for a 5 year old or newer vehicle, i.e. one that's reliable and has lower maintenance (and aggravation) costs. That still leaves you paying a little over $600 per month. From that point as you start lowering your finance costs you're going to increase your maintenance and aggravation co…

There are plenty of reliable 15-year old cars. (My wife drives a reliable 18-year old, 225K mile car. We took it on a 1600 mile roundtrip for the winter holidays this year with no particular fear that it wouldn't run like a top for the entire trip.) The idea that cars are only reliable for 5 years and 60K miles is, IMO and IME, quite out-dated. That was more true in the days of carburetors, points-based ignition, and…

There is a very interesting thing happening in the "car knowledge space". At least for young people.

Myself and a few of my friends drive exclusively Honda/Toyota and drive them to 200k and then sell them to people who know how to do their own car work.

A few of my friends are from well off families and they buy cars brand new and drive them to 60-80k and then act like the car isnt reliable anymore for some reason despite the fact that I usually buy my car with 60-80k miles on it.

* all distance here is miles sorry for confusion

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#409

Post by mellosouls »

narrowtux wrote: post #63
mft_ wrote: post #61

Eh, this is a very city-centric view. As discussed many times past, including on HN, if you live in or near a major city, and in a country or area which prioritises goood public transport, you can get by admirably --even better-- without a car. As soon as you move even a little away from the metropolis, and/or to somewhere that doesn't prioritise good public transport, access (at least) to a car becomes close to a ne…

Nobody is talking about taking away cars from people who live outside of cities. Yet this argument always comes up when problems with cars in densely populated areas are discussed.

That's because the tone of "problems with cars in densely populated areas" and those discussing them tend to completely ignore the significant part of the population that the argument is redundant for.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#410

Post by ghaff »

sokoloff wrote: post #372
taylodl wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That helps a little, but still makes care ownership prohibitively expensive for young people. You're still looking at $350 per month for a 5 year old or newer vehicle, i.e. one that's reliable and has lower maintenance (and aggravation) costs. That still leaves you paying a little over $600 per month. From that point as you start lowering your finance costs you're going to increase your maintenance and aggravation co…

There are plenty of reliable 15-year old cars. (My wife drives a reliable 18-year old, 225K mile car. We took it on a 1600 mile roundtrip for the winter holidays this year with no particular fear that it wouldn't run like a top for the entire trip.) The idea that cars are only reliable for 5 years and 60K miles is, IMO and IME, quite out-dated. That was more true in the days of carburetors, points-based ignition, and…

Vehicles in areas of the country with snow and salt also used to routinely rust out in about 5 years.
Post reply on HN