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Htmx in a Nutshell

htmx.org

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Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#401

Post by DLA »

Quekid5 wrote: post #209
fatboy wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you speak of your experience with liveviewjs? I've been looking at it, and htmx, and everything else, over the past few months for a heavily-interactive frontend project I need to start. I'm an experienced ios dev, but in at the deepens with all this js frontend stuff. There are so many options! The one thing I'm sure of is I don't want to use react.

The only real advice I can offer is: Try to implement an example of the most complicated UI interaction that you have in your (conceptual) application in both and then decide. Development-by-random-recommendation is usually a recipe for disaster.

This is such sage advice! Pick the hard UI/UX bits and prototype to de-risk and see how it feels once it’s working. Bravo Quekid5!

As for htmx, my team and I have been very happy with a Go + Fiber backend with Go templates and some htmx and Alpinejs for the more heavily interactive parts of a moderately complex application. Not having to deal with NodeJS, React, thousands of JS packages and overly complex configurations has been a blessing. Our system is insanely fast, plays nice with browser history, and is super cache friendly.

We make “component”-like parts such as toolbars, footers, menus, data tables, etc. with Go templates (partials called by a main template) with appropriate htmx. (Edit: we use/love Bulma for CSS.) High degree of reuse, great performance, and low complexity.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#402

Post by DLA »

czx4f4bd wrote: post #198
codegeek wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask you how long you have been using this stack for and what are your findings ? Do you have a complex UI heavy application and can you deterministically say that this stack can replace frameworks like React/Vue for JS heavy frontend ? Is HTMX really mature and stable for production and massive UI heavy apps ? I am asking because we are starting a big project in Django, Postgres, Tailwind and for frontend, stil…

https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ addresses your first question. The tl;dr is "probably not" as htmx is not really designed to handle complex browser-based UIs, but I have seen people in this thread and elsewhere discuss more complex use cases, so YMMV. https://htmx.org/essays/a-real-world-react-to-htmx-port/ is about porting a serious production Django application from React to htmx. If you hate SPAs a…

Highly recommend the post and video mentioned above! The SaaS application shown in the video is non-trivial and appears to be very well done using htmx. Worth a close study https://htmx.org/essays/a-real-world-react-to-htmx-port/

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#403

Post by naasking »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #228
talideon wrote: post #177

HTMX is the perfect example of a project that, like jQuery, exists to be replaced with a W3C standard. And I don't think the people behind it would feel at all bad about that, as it fills a real niche that ought to have been filled a decade ago.

We could've been saved from gigabytes of JavaScript if HTML 1.0 specified that tables must be sortable by clicking their headers.

Maybe, but probably not because it wouldn't help with paginated data sets displayed in tables. You don't want to sort only the items you currently see, but across the whole data set most of which is likely not loaded.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#404

Post by naasking »

t8sr wrote: post #97
t8sr wrote: post #75

I'm confused about what value this adds. The introductory example is certainly not helpful, as it takes an ` Blog ` and turns into 7 lines of markup to accomplish the same thing. (And then it says a bunch of things that are arguably not desirable, like "any element can now trigger requests".) Like: what's the point of using this over HTML5+js? I've spent 15 minutes reading the website and I still don't understand why…

Replying to myself: I guess the main point of this library is to use HTML as the protocol payload between serve and client, instead of JSON. I can see the benefit of doing that, although I have a bone to pick with the condemnation of all data APIs because JSON is awful. Protocol buffers, for example, are trivially forward and backward compatible and mostly self-describing. Also if you build stuff on top of hypermedia…

> Just write HTML5. It's fine. Add javascript for the 2-3 bits of interactivity you actually need.

Why write any JS at all if you don't have to? Htmx extends HTML to replace the need for a lot of the JS that's out there. It gives you client/server interaction and dynamic page behaviours without a single line of code.

Sure you can do without it. You could always do it all in vanilla JS or jQuery, at the cost of debugging it yourself.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#405

Post by sandGorgon »

bnert wrote: post #399
sandGorgon wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey thanks so much! truly appreciate the detailed answer. I have one doubt and uve probably answered it...but i still cant see it. im not able to figure out what is it that htmx is saving you in the example above. with clojurescript, wouldnt you have written very similar code ? i mean all you are doing is calling an api. is it automatically doing conversion of JSON to ur DTO/business object. that cant be right can it…

No worries, good questions! Taking clojure out of the equation and only looking at htmx, I would say it buys you is simplicity, and for most use cases that is the difference between a shipped thing and a dead one (thing in this case is project, product, etc...). Granted, htmx isn't a silver bullet, as you have to learn some of the idioms of the library. But it may be worth it to some (it is to me), to not have to bri…

>The way I have been using it is to partially update my DOM based on some user interaction (either a POST, PUT, DELETE), by returning html. This makes updates html -> html vs json -> frontend framework -> html.

oh this clicked. Now i get what htmx is doing. its basically doing a react-ish way of UI changes without a full page reload (which thymeleaf would have done).

so what happens if i click something that needs to go to another "page"? do you "swap" the html out with the html of the other page ? or do you trigger a full page reload. For SEO reasons, im kinda putting the requirement that every interaction must have a unique url

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#408

Post by geenat »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #24

My only complaint with htmx is that it is _nearly impossible_ to Google search for info about it. You just get tons of noise from Google 'helpfully' deciding you really just want to search for 'html'. You need to search for "htmx" (including quotes) to find docs, articles, etc. about it.

google will catch up eventually as htmx gains in popularity.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#410

Post by bnert »

sandGorgon wrote: post #405
bnert wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries, good questions! Taking clojure out of the equation and only looking at htmx, I would say it buys you is simplicity, and for most use cases that is the difference between a shipped thing and a dead one (thing in this case is project, product, etc...). Granted, htmx isn't a silver bullet, as you have to learn some of the idioms of the library. But it may be worth it to some (it is to me), to not have to bri…

> The way I have been using it is to partially update my DOM based on some user interaction (either a POST, PUT, DELETE), by returning html. This makes updates html -> html vs json -> frontend framework -> html. oh this clicked. Now i get what htmx is doing. its basically doing a react-ish way of UI changes without a full page reload (which thymeleaf would have done). so what happens if i click something that needs t…

its basically doing a react-ish way of UI changes without a full page reload (which thymeleaf would have done).

Interesting, I missed that in my scan of the thymeleaf docs. I haven't used that library at all (and tend to shy away from Java land in general, unless it's Clojure).

And for my purposes, yes. I may be missing the point of the library, but that is how I've tended to use it.

so what happens if i click something that needs to go to another "page"? do you "swap" the html out with the html of the other page ? or do you trigger a full page reload. For SEO reasons, im kinda putting the requirement that every interaction must have a unique url

I'd say pick your poison. You could go either route and it would most likely be roughly the same code.

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