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Htmx in a Nutshell

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Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#191

Post by recursivedoubts »

bogwog wrote: post #98

I don't love the idea of implementing common app state logic via attributes. It probably works a lot better than I'm assuming, but it feels hacky to me. Like it can't solve every problem you'd actually encounter when making a complex app, so eventually you'll need to fall back to using javascript, and possibly a framework or three...on top of htmx. But it does seem like this would be fun to play around with using PHP…

htmx uses the original state model of the web, Hypermedia As The Engine Of Application State (HATEOAS):

https://htmx.org/essays/hateoas/

it really tries to focus on extending HTML & the original model of the web, rather than replacing it w/something else

good for some stuff, not good for other stuff

i like using events when I need to tie things together with some scripting:

https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-friendly-scripting/

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#193

Post by ColonelPhantom »

spion wrote: post #167
recursivedoubts wrote: post #2

howdy, I'm the creator of htmx, happy to talk about it

I've never used htmx, primarily because I like the concept of "components" so much. (They serve two needs - standardizing larger blocks of UI and encapsulating them with an alternative interface, and providing islands of rich interactivity) Is there any material on successfully combining htmx with web components? It doesn't look to me like the original design takes this possibility into consideration... (note: at a s…

I'm not sure if I've entirely grokked the idea of components, but can't you define them server-side? So write them as some template magic that creates the "inner HTML". Then you just need some HTMX to enable using the component in a richer way.

It's not really Web Components as specified, but iirc those are generally pretty much JS-dependent? But hypermedia's reliance on server side rendering means that you can just move this logic to the server.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#194

Post by recursivedoubts »

talideon wrote: post #177

HTMX is the perfect example of a project that, like jQuery, exists to be replaced with a W3C standard. And I don't think the people behind it would feel at all bad about that, as it fills a real niche that ought to have been filled a decade ago.

100% I would love it if htmx was pulled into the HTML standard, that's where it belongs and I would get more sleep :)

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#195

Post by kkapelon »

icedchai wrote: post #157
kkapelon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am missing something but Dropwizard is not a framework on its own but instead of collection of external and independently developed libraries

Maybe you are? Yes, it integrates existing frameworks and libraries. In fact, the home page says "Dropwizard is a Java framework for developing ops-friendly, high-performance, RESTful web services."

While I would love to argue whether DropWizard is a framework or not there is no need for that.

Just go to google trends and compare Spring and Dropwizard. Or look at https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2021/java/. Dropwizard doesn't even appear in the list of web frameworks.

I mean, if you still believe that Java has as many frameworks as Javascript has (and had in the past) there is nothing I can say that will convince you.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#196

Post by recursivedoubts »

Xeoncross wrote: post #67

1. One of the most painful thing with SSR forms is passing the data back-and-forth between the server and client when there are validation errors. Sometimes the data is very sensitive and you have to return the form with some values (like SSN) empty and make the user retype that along with with whatever field(s) were the actual issue. I'm also curious about how file uploads would work. 2. REST/GraphQL/gRPC API. Often…

https

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#197

Post by hedgehog »

jonesnc wrote: post #126

We're migrating our apps from Vue.js to HTMX, and it has been a great experience. The size of our codebase has consistently gone down as we move things to HTMX, and it feels like the level of complexity goes down as well. I highly recommend using HTMX.

What kind of apps? I used Intercooler (sort of a predecessor to HTMX) for a personal project and it worked well but I didn't get a good feel for what it would be like to build more complicated UI.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#198

Post by czx4f4bd »

codegeek wrote: post #158
leetrout wrote: post #3

I am burnt out (but recovering!) with web dev and htmx is what I am using for my project. Django, DRF, Postgres, tailwind and HTMX. I am so tired of all the front end frameworks and all the complexity that gets added. At some point I think you need it and you get returns from it but hearing more people in the industry recognize and talk about how JS everything isn't always the answer gives me hope. I like what HTMX h…

Can I ask you how long you have been using this stack for and what are your findings ? Do you have a complex UI heavy application and can you deterministically say that this stack can replace frameworks like React/Vue for JS heavy frontend ? Is HTMX really mature and stable for production and massive UI heavy apps ? I am asking because we are starting a big project in Django, Postgres, Tailwind and for frontend, stil…

https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/ addresses your first question. The tl;dr is "probably not" as htmx is not really designed to handle complex browser-based UIs, but I have seen people in this thread and elsewhere discuss more complex use cases, so YMMV.

https://htmx.org/essays/a-real-world-react-to-htmx-port/ is about porting a serious production Django application from React to htmx.

If you hate SPAs and are chafing against Vue for building your app, it's probably worth considering if your app absolutely needs to be a JS/frontend-heavy product, or if it would be viable using a more traditional HTML+AJAX design.

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#199

Post by recursivedoubts »

talideon wrote: post #181
recursivedoubts wrote: post #2

howdy, I'm the creator of htmx, happy to talk about it

First, I'll preface this that what I'm about to write is meant as an endorsement of HTMX. What HTMX does should've been a W3C standard a decade ago, and I've my fingers crossed that some day I'll be able to do what I've done with jQuery and remove it. Thank you for pushing the state of the art forward in a meaningful (and RESTful!) way.

:) agree 100%, htmx shouldn't have to exist!

Re: Htmx in a Nutshell

#200

Post by namuol »

Would love to see more opinionated approaches for client side templates/components to enable things like optimistic updates with similar ergonomics.
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