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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#401
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible/beyond apparently have similar CO2 footprints as turkey. On the other hand, we're in the middle of a turkey shortage due to bird flu.

Various sources put beyond burgers at less than a kg of co2 per kg of food, whereas turkey is close to 20kg of co2 per kg of meat. The thing with plant based meat is that even with processing, it’s virtually impossible to come close to farmed meat in terms of water, energy, and feed. Since the animals eat the plants their meat is compared to, they will have eaten the equivalent of what they’re being compared to in a…

See sibling reply.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#402
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be rather logical now, wouldn't it? However, I'm afraid that when someone says that we must reduce our dependence on petrochemicals I must mention that there are things for which we have no replacement for petrochemicals. I must argue that eliminating petrochemical use is impossible any time you ask to reduce use. I don't make the rules. Would you like to hear about how some Americans need a truck to do wo…

I agree. petrochemicals are very useful, so we should not be burning it all up. It takes millions of years to produce organically.

Yup, that's why I can't give up my truck.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#403
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible/beyond apparently have similar CO2 footprints as turkey. On the other hand, we're in the middle of a turkey shortage due to bird flu.

Where are you getting that from? Other data suggests that even worst case production of plant sources of protein come out far ahead of even the best case production of meat, dairy, etc. > plant-based foods emit fewer greenhouse gases than meat and dairy, regardless of how they are produced. > […] > Plant-based protein sources – tofu, beans, peas and nuts – have the lowest carbon footprint. This is certainly true when…

See sibling reply. Your reference doesn't include Beyond or Impossible, neither of which audit their carbon footprint.

Attempting to audit externally is difficult, but the study that exists shows they are much, much worse than other vegetarian food.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would it be simpler just to de-claw the crabs so that they are unable to poke / snip at each other?

Claws have some of the best meat, if anything you want larger claws

Put a rubber band on the claws. Like they do in the tanks at red lobster.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#405
post #318

My current employer was just talking about how the cost of seafood is rising because of things like this. Don't expect your plate of crab or lobster to be cheap these next few years folks. And if it is cheap somehow, stop eating there. They are probably part of the problem.

Yeah the price of seafood is the real problem here, the canary is dead but lets keep digging deeper, things are bound to improve.

Heh, I get the joke.

But really, is it really the problem? I'm considering the idea from both angles of supply and demand right now. I mean, once upon a time ago, stuff like crab and lobster was considered poor persons food. It was so plentiful that the story goes 'You could just walk down to the local ocean side and scoop some out of the ocean without any trouble'.

The way I see it is this. Pricing is indicative of supply and demand. If demand is high enough, suppliers will attempt to meet that demand. When demand wanes, supply burgeons, thus creating a reason to lower prices so that demand matches supply again. So in a sense, while price would seem to be the culprit, I think it more or less comes down to the fickle nature of the human.

Take red lobster for example. I never eat there, because they always somehow have some 'sale' happening. This means one of two things for me. Either they are selling old product as "fresh" which is not possible in many places they operate, or they are selling under the 'actual' price to increase demand to help meet supply.

Now extend that to the rest of the industry. Where does that land us?

In my mind, it means we are over fishing the species, all because other companies like RL allow for it to happen by continuously artificially spiking demand. Because at the end of the day, even if RL doesn't make profit, the fishermen do. RL and others like them keep buying it. It doesn't matter to the supplier of these restaurants if the food is being eaten or tossed. It's already caught.

Make sense?

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#406
post #318

My current employer was just talking about how the cost of seafood is rising because of things like this. Don't expect your plate of crab or lobster to be cheap these next few years folks. And if it is cheap somehow, stop eating there. They are probably part of the problem.

In the northeastern US this past summer the price of lobster was maybe 30% higher than previous years (in my area anyway)

Right, and so with that, demand should taper down a bit. But only until other things become more expensive and now that food source is the cheaper one...

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#407
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a fallacy? Isn't the whole idea behind it exactly what you said? The tragedy is not the commons itself, it's the tragedy of what happens to the commons. After all, the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is what happens to Romeo and Juliet.

Fallacy in the sense that it is supposed to demonstrate a problem with the Commons while ignoring the context in which it is used. Maybe because privatization is taken as a given, a thing to not even be questioned, thus the Commons has to fit in to the world of private property as we know it today or else be deemed flawed. (Private property as we know it cannot be flawed: it is axiomatic.) From Wikipedia: > Faced wit…

I think we are actually in agreement and I think this is just a quibble with the nomenclature.

As I was taught, the tragedy of the commons is just any situation where the Nash equilibrium (all actors acting independently optimally in their own interests) is not Pareto efficient (no actor can be made better off without making another actor worse off). In my mind I don't really even associate it with property rights (and I certainly don't think private property is axiomatic), so personally I was surprised at your interpretation of it being a fallacy.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#408
post #42

The Seattle Times joined followed a carb boat in April of 2022. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/into-t... The captain's take on the issue includes climate change, over crabbing areas known to be struggling and trawling. The article also includes an explanation as to how cod could be responsible due to climate change offering less ice protection for the crab.

https://archive.ph/Szsae. Good article, thanks.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have not flopped. They are extremely popular among vegetarians. They flopped as "meat substitutes" because they are not in fact meat substitutes and never were. They are flavored soy protein. They are junk food. Absolutely nothing like lab-grown meat or any other kind of meat, in neither form nor function nor nutritional value.

Saying they’re absolutely nothing like meat in form or nutritional value doesn’t make sense to me - the Whopper and Impossible Whopper are basically the same item. An impossible patty has very similar fat/protein content to a beef (80/20) patty but with more carbohydrates (beef having none). Impossible patties seem a legitimate meat substitute for those who choose to purchase them.

Counting macronutrients is a pretty poor way of comparing foods. They have different amino acids, fats, trace minerals, and vitamins, and are digested differently in the body. They don't even smell the same or behave the same when cooking.

This isn't some kind of pro-meat screed, either. It's just not true that they are equivalent culinarily or nutritionally. They are a pretty good approximation of beef, but they're not the same.

If the Whoppers seem the same, it's because Whoppers are junk food, and Impossible meat is kind of just vegan junk food.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. The billions who subsist on seafood will now have to eat eggs, pork, beef. This will cause supply issues of those things. If you're a vegetarian you might be safe, though those too will be in higher demand maybe. There's also water shortages, see the drought that's drying up the Mississippi river. Without water we'll have less and less crop yields. We slowly had changes happen over 3 decades, then all o…

Food shortages/expenses is probably one of the few things that would actually get the average person to revolt/do something other than work their crap career-job that cant buy them a house. This could be fun ! I mean when it happens it will be awful for those that have homes, good careers, etc. But still will be an interesting part of history to observe.

I’m hoping that when the revolt happens, the monetary system will collapse and I won’t have to make any more mortgage payments on my home.
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