Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service • Hacker News Board

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#401

Post by stark98 » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

bioemerl wrote: post #302

latchkey wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will not be letting my children near discord. Isn't this kind of a whack-a-mole approach to things? The internet is full of hazards... are you going to ban everything that comes up?

The correct answer is to be having regular discussions with your kids about what they're doing online, and occasionally log into their accounts, having access to their usernames so that you can do it, so that you know what they're up to. Probably not as necessary once they're like 15 or so, but up that age do not let them be on there on their own. And, of course, make sure they know critical thinking and discuss ever…

> log into their accounts, having access to their usernames so that you can do it, so that you know what they're up to.

Wouldn't it damage the trust between you and your child? I think even monitoring internet usage in-person or outright restricting access to potentially dangerous websites would be less intrusive. If your kid discovers you can access their messages at any time, it would make them more inclined to make other accounts and not discuss about any dangerous interactions on them out of fear of being discovered.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#402

Post by amatecha » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #392

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future of the internet seems pretty sad... That’s frankly terrible. Sites infamous for promoting harassment can’t be hosted anymore. Clearly a tremendous loss for the internet. /s

What happens if another site that you consider completely legitimate can't be hosted just because others think it is not acceptable? Maybe your views are currently acceptable, but will they be in 5, 10, 20 years?

When was the last time a site got taken down because "others think it is not acceptable"? Please, name a single one. There's a difference between people simply "not liking" a site, and people using extremely well-established principles of ethical concepts and human rights (which have been refined over centuries) to decide what content is violating the "laws", as we call them, which have been generally agreed upon in modern society. Further to that, hosts have what we call "terms of service" or "acceptable use policy" which clearly define what content is acceptable for that host to continue to serve the customer operating the site and administrating its content. Again, not someone "thinking it is not acceptable".

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#403

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #107

fullstop wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

There are different degrees, sure. And this place has moderation. But what is the line? Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions. There are threads here where people call for wealthy peoples heads. Did that cross a line? Could we say it about other people?

> Be precise and avoid arbitrary definitions.

Why should we?

Society has been doing pretty fine with some fuzziness until now. Sometimes something really goes to far and they end up not hosted anymore. That’s the system working, not it failing to work. Well, that came a bit slowly for kiwifarms sadly but I’m glade sanity prevailed in the end.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#404

Post by _-david-_ » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

wesleywt wrote: post #211

that_guy_iain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their freedom of speech isn't being denied is it? Their right to a peaceful life is being infridged but not their freedom of speech.

Kiwifarms goal is to remove the freedom of speech of LGBTQ people online. Is it okay for them to this?

How are they trying to remove freedom of speech for LGBTQ people? Being mean to people doesn't remove their freedom of speech ability.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#405

Post by redeeman » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

fullstop wrote: post #132

concordDance wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you mean by "hate speech". It's a literally Orwellian term designed to be bad but not specific.

In this case, the entire forum was created to target and harass a specific person. From there it evolved to target and harass specific people / communities. As I said in my initial response, we all have a line in the sand that we draw. For me, Kiwifarms crosses that line. Maybe you're okay with a website dedicated to harassing and doxxing specific people. I am not.

> As I said in my initial response, we all have a line in the sand that we draw. For me, Kiwifarms crosses that line.

Okay, please, if you dont mind, specify how that line is drawn up

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#406

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #392

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future of the internet seems pretty sad... That’s frankly terrible. Sites infamous for promoting harassment can’t be hosted anymore. Clearly a tremendous loss for the internet. /s

What happens if another site that you consider completely legitimate can't be hosted just because others think it is not acceptable? Maybe your views are currently acceptable, but will they be in 5, 10, 20 years?

Let’s cross that bridge if it happens.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#407

Post by _-david-_ » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #212

that_guy_iain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their freedom of speech isn't being denied is it? Their right to a peaceful life is being infridged but not their freedom of speech.

Harassing people (and their families and friends) off the internet is absolutely something that has chilling effects on freedom of speech.

Maybe we should ban criticism against politicians while we are at it. If we don't do that then politicians will be harassed off the internet which of course would have a chilling effect on freedom of speech.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#408

Post by mynameishere » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

fullstop wrote: post #92

nemo44x wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform including this one. There’s no shortage of hate speech against wealthy people or white men, etc. Is that allowed?

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

If you cannot define a term, you should not use it. I'm surprised that you're so honest about your irrationality, though. Normally, you would "define" hate speech as follows: "Weasel term, weasel term, weasel term" and that would be that.

I would define hate speech as speech that directs hatred at a particular group. For instance, Joe Biden recently gave a state speech (The "Gates of Hell" speech) that was completely choked with hatred for a group. Shrug. I have no interest in banning this, whether from the "president" or from anon. My understanding of Kiwifarms is that they basically just make fun of idiot liberals--a sport on endless grounds.

If you gave your honest definition of hate speech it would likely be "People who disagree with me and make me look bad showing how stupid or wrong I am."

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#409

Post by pxeger1 » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

neonsunset wrote: post #334

The problem with salem witch trials du jour so fervently pushed by certain groups of people is closing to its demise with every case like this. The advantage of emotionally immature people (regardless of their actual age) having too much time on their hands forcing their narrative and banning any discourse that they don't like will eventually cease when the majority of people will realize that they are, well, in a ma…

(I'm inferring that your comment is supporting KiwiFarms. If this is not the case, you should probably re-word it.)

> salem witch trials du jour so fervently pushed by certain groups of people

Hunting trans people and pushing them to suicide sounds like much more of a witch trial to me.

> forcing their narrative and banning any discourse that they don't like

Telling to people to kill themselves is "discourse" that we merely "don't like"?

> put stop to this madness

Even if you're a raging transphobe, how can you possibly think being trans is more madness than pushing people to kill themselves?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#410

Post by Georgelemental » Mon, Sep 05, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #113

flumpcakes wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've browsed through kiwifarms and they seem to say horrible stuff about people but in my sample I haven't seen anyone directing action against someone. It was a good source of information that was omitted from the press regarding a recent case in the UK about terminal medical care. I saw some nasty comments about the person, but in the few hundred forum pages no calls to action or threats made against the people. Is…

Incitement as a tactic doesn't require a direct call to action. When someone manufactures an ideological enemy, describes a reason they are intolerable, gives others the language and the arguments to convince others, and in turn foments the making of a mob, then each euphemistically independent actor is doing so with the tacit support and blessing of a power group. Does it make a difference to you whether it's happen…

> someone manufactures an ideological enemy, describes a reason they are intolerable, gives others the language and the arguments to convince others

This describes every political movement that has ever existed ever