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The end of the manual transmission is near?

popularmechanics.com

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Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#401

Post by leoedin »

alexchantavy wrote: post #380
randunel wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you’ll notice modern manual cars keep the revs up even when you let off the throttle It's called "engine brake" and the fuel consumption is 0 in spite of the revs. As far as mileage goes, my experience in modern cars is still the opposite, manuals still use less fuel.

I think they are referring to rev hang that occurs in newer manual transmissions where the ECU is tuned to not drop revs quickly for emissions reasons. This makes for an annoying 1st-to-2nd gear shift because the driver must wait a long time between shifts before engaging the clutch in order to shift smoothly. Mostly only newer MTs do this - some worse than others.

That's fascinating. I had a manual hire car this summer and I kept getting the 1st - 2nd shift wrong and juddering - I was wondering why I suddenly couldn't shift well (I've exclusively driven manuals for years, so it wasn't as straightforward as being out of practice). I wonder if that was why.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#402

Post by masklinn »

fragmede wrote: post #362
mongol wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Automatic is more fuel efficient I thought it was the opposite. Has that changed?

Yes. Technology advanced and CVTs and 10-speed dual-clutch automatic transmissions are now more (by 1-2 mpg) more efficient than manual transmissions.

I’ve been told even the old torque converter style has been upgraded with direct coupling, so you get fluid coupling (and its smoothness) while shifting, and direct coupling (and its efficiency) once in gear.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#403

Post by cromka »

jakogut wrote: post #349
kbenson wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reasonably sized as in the 50s and 60s. Fire all your designers, go back to whatever your models were in 1965 What alternate dimension are you from? My older brother had a 60's Ford Fairlane when I was growing up. My first car was a 67 mustang. I had a friend with a 68 Camaro. I knew someone else that had multiple Thunderbirds from that era. These were not small cars. The Mustang and Camaro were the size of a full…

> The Mustang and Camaro were the size of a full size sedan today , if not bigger This is verifiably false with three minutes of searching, which I did on my cellphone as I sit by a campfire. As an owner of both a 1965 Mustang and a 2015 Explorer, the difference in size between these vehicles is comical. I've rented a 2020 Camry that was larger in every dimension. It got great gas mileage, but small it was not. 1967…

Seems like you exposed a case of confabulation.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#404

Post by hnov »

gorgoiler wrote: post #383
ciconia wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now automatic transmissions are so much more efficient than manual transmissions * for ordinary people *. Efficient in what way? I find it highly unlikely an automatic would have better fuel economy than a manual.

Automatics traditionally had a single clutch and a viscous coupling to convert smooth the torque between gear shifts. Switching gears was slow and the transmission as a whole was less fuel efficient. Modern automatic gearboxes have dual clutches and two separate sets of gears for even and odd numbers. You alternate between them as you shift up and down. Shifting is faster and smoother. (The system isn’t perfect. If y…

That’s not quite how traditional autos worked, they also have sets of clutches and bands, controlled by a complex hydraulic system. Modern automatics are electronically actuated and are basically killing the need for DCTs, with VW Group and Hyundai (and some exotic makers) being the lone holdouts in the U.S. market.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#405

Post by bambax »

bsilvereagle wrote: post #305
vanshg wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what Olympian Motors is doing. They're a YC company. It's beautifully styled imo and has only physical controls inside https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/olympian-motors https://olympianmotors.com/

> Olympian believes in reducing the number of buttons and switches to simplify the cockpit. We take a voice-first approach to control infotainment, HVAC, seats, doors, and lighting systems. This sounds like the opposite of OP's request for physical controls.

> We take a voice-first approach

That sounds like a nightmare. So you have to forcibly silence everyone in the car to do anything? Even if I'm alone I would prefer silence and pushing buttons instead of having a conversation with a machine.

Obligatory reference, if you haven't seen it: Scottish Elevator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#406

Post by djhworld »

originalvichy wrote: post #330
masklinn wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got older, and now automatic transmissions are so much more efficient than manual transmissions * for ordinary people *. It’s not just ordinary people. The opposite, if anything. F1 and rally cars haven’t been manual for decades. I don’t think any modern super is manual. Though with the ev-ification the point is moot as save for a few rare exceptions they’re single-gear.

Saying they aren’t manual can be misleading. F1 and rally cars have automatic clutching but they certainly gear up and down manually.

This feature is on ordinary cars too (sometimes called 'semi automatics')

I actually have it on my car, there are paddles behind the steering wheel that can shift the gears up and down. It's a bit of a gimmick for ordinary driving as you can just let the car choose the appropriate gear, but I guess if you want to shunt down a few gears quickly on a hill to get some engine braking it can be useful

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#407

Post by bambax »

vanshg wrote: post #206
recursivedoubts wrote: post #7

I reiterate my compromise proposal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32397975 I will give up my manual transmission, if you will bring back pull-knobs, twist knobs and other tactile switches for the main controls of my vehicle, with the appropriate tactile feedback at set points so I can set them without looking. After thinking on it, I am going to raise my demands, however: you also need to produce cars that are…

That's exactly what Olympian Motors is doing. They're a YC company. It's beautifully styled imo and has only physical controls inside https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/olympian-motors https://olympianmotors.com/

Design seems more inspired by the 1920s' than the sixties.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#408

Post by glogla »

_delirium wrote: post #183
pier25 wrote: post #164

> As sad as it may be, manual vehicles make up a miniscule percentage of the current market share. Is the author talking about the world or the US? AFAIK the vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are manual. Not sure about the rest of the world. I'm from Spain and I've never seen an AT car there. I'm sure they exist though, probably. I now live in Mexico where AT is very common and I've gotten used to it. I think…

> AFAIK the vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are manual. This was true up until a few years ago, but it's around 50/50 now for passenger cars. There is a definite regional split, with manuals still popular in southern Europe, but having rapidly declining market share in northern Europe. Part of that is that hybrid and electric cars have had more uptake in northern Europe and are almost always automatic (there…

So rich people get automatic and poor people get manual. That explains why US gets automatic as well.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#409

Post by hnov »

fredsted wrote: post #388

I'm on my way to pick up a manual car today (BMW M2) I've just had about a year with a similar automatic car, but I miss the feel of the car when I'm shifting through gears. The next car for me is probably going to something similar - or an EV.

The M2 is an interesting one because the manual in that car isn’t that good (typical BMW rubbery shifter, high clutch pedal with detent, clutch delay valve) while the Getrag 7 speed DCT feels like something out of a Lamborghini, but people were still buying a LOT of manual M2s.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#410

Post by bambax »

> As sad as it may be, manual vehicles make up a minuscule percentage of the current market share.

In the US. In France the share of automatic gearbox for new cars passed 50% for new cars only in 2021, and there are still an immense majority of manual vehicles in circulation; you have to use a manual gearbox to pass your driving license.

This will change with electric cars that for the most part don't need gears at all, of course.

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