Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#401

Post by swader999 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

axbytg wrote: post #392

swader999 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ones of all design do help with droplet suppression. They do sweet f all for airborne unless properly fit and of the right rating. Covid for all practical purposes behaves like it is airborne. If you haven't realized this by now, I don't know what to say to convince you. Maybe these will help: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

" In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks" Wish you had read the studies you posted

I did actually. That line you quoted was what they (and most all of us would expect).

The data didn't prove it out though, they report this in their analysis: "We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility"

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#402

Post by ghoward » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

dlp211 wrote: post #351

trutannus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime A lot of it boils down to people not trusting what they're seeing. Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. In Canada at least an insane amount of what was said turned out to be…

It turns out that not all things can be known and when giving advice, you go with the best known data...which at times can be wrong. This is literally how science works. We don't always have the liberty to wait for a near certain answer. And the experts haven't been wrong for a year and a half, the experts were working with bad or incomplete data for a few months. Their advice for the past year, wear masks, socially…

Has their advice for the past year been correct?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27460858

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#403

Post by swader999 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

axbytg wrote: post #393

swader999 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no. A cloth mask can harbor dampness and increase flu transmission. It may give a false sense of security. See the two studies I posted.

" In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks" from the very study you posted.

Don't you realize you are quoting the hypotheses or just the preamble?

Read the conclusion, what their study actually found: "We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility"

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#404

Post by ghoward » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #369

mandmandam wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all vaccines are the same, so pro science and anti vaxx are not always opposed. I am pro science, but science doesn't claim that all vaccines are safe. And let's not forget that pharma co's have tried very hard to make vaccines mandatory, to the point of bribing academics and officials, forming unaccountable PR groups, and in the not so distant past they've done truly horrific and inhuman things. After the lab-le…

> I am pro science, but science doesn't claim that all vaccines are safe Indeed. But science does claim that Pfizer, Moderna, etc COVID-vaccines are safe and you are un-scientific if you claim otherwise. They went through proper trials, and were accepted independently* by many countries. * not completely independently I’m sure, but my point is that even if you don’t trust your country at all, several other ones decid…

How can science claim they are safe when we haven't even had the chance to do tests for long-term effects yet?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#405

Post by kaba0 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

nsonha wrote: post #234

I didn't even think of this before but now that i read this, i'm curious too. So basically Linus say mRNA vaccine does not change your genetic but then he proceed to say that it does exactly that to fight foreign proteins and it's ok because your cell's mRNA do that anyway. Do you see the difference? I guess there is a reason to raise concerns about the novelty of the technique, if this is indeed the first time artif…

> but then he proceed to say that it does exactly that to fight foreign proteins

No he doesn’t say that and is not true. mRNAs are “commands”. They encode proteins — each triplet (of nucleotides) on it will translate to one protein building block. They are semi-stable and are actively destroyed in the cell so they can only produce a few protein molecules. So injecting mRNA will give a temporary command to the cells to produce this protein so that the body can learn to defend agains them once they are released from cells.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#406

Post by SECProto » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:40 AM UTC

markkanof wrote: post #330

SECProto wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the viewpoint of a healthy young person, the risk/reward ratio of taking a vaccine is bad. Absolutely false. The disease can and does have severe and sometimes long-lasting impacts on young healthy people. The mRNA vaccines don't have any impact worse than a sore arm. And we aren't getting to a herd immunity level of vaccination if young people are unvaccinated.

But why are we only considering vaccination with regards to herd immunity. Shouldn't we also be including natural immunity from previous covid infection?

Because, for example in Canada, there have been 1.4 million total cases of Covid over the last year which has on multiple occasions stretched particularly ICU capacity to the limit. In a much shorter time period we have administered 27.7 million doses of vaccines. We give more doses every 3 days than we had cases in 14 months. Natural immunity is almost negligible compared to vaccination. Getting to herd immunity levels with actual infection will result in hundreds of thousands of deaths and damage our health (and healthcare system) for decades.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#407

Post by lettergram » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

fastball wrote: post #297

lettergram wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://americasvoice.news/video/DHUF0DZxs4KXyGX Jump to the 5 min mark. Dude explains some other stuff that works but is being suppressed. For reference, I’m pro vaccine, but not one that hasn’t been tested for 10 years. Especially not for a disease that has a 99.99% survival rate in my age range. I’m appalled that anyone with an opinion (who’s educated!) can’t share that opinion, they’ve been banned. For reference,…

I too have degrees in bioengineering, and I'm interested: given the function of an mRNA vaccine, by what mechanism do you think it would be possible for the cure to be worse than the disease in this case? Said another way, if you are guaranteed to either get COVID-19 or an mRNA vaccine, would you really prefer to get COVID-19? If so, what are you worried about in the vaccine that SARS-CoV-2 does not have? Additionall…

I’ve had covid19, wasn’t a big deal, more mild than the flu I had the year prior. In fact, half the people I know got covid19. The only people I know who ended up in the hospital were a couple of family members who were vaccinated.

Regarding the mechanism. Inflammation, we are not 100% sure where and what cells the mRNA is injected into and the spike proteins themselves have risk. Further, you’re training the body to attack these proteins... in the case of the second shot, those proteins are being produced inside your cells and being released, are we sure you won’t have an autoimmune response? We know the second shot reports the highest rate of issues. Where do spike proteins accumulate after they’re created? Etc etc

I’m not saying I know, I’m saying for most vaccines we wait 10 years because there’s the unknowns. Covid19 has very minimal risks and for those under 35 it’s less risky than the flu. In contrast based on VARES data your more likely (in that age range) to be hospitalized and die from the vaccine (depending on confounding factors)

https://vaers.hhs.gov/index.html

I’ve been bullish on people 65 and older getting the vaccine. Below that it doesn’t seem anywhere near justified.

Regarding suppression, families are having to resort to lawsuits to use safe drugs which have been shown effective in studies:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-elmhurst-hospi...

If you talk about these alternative drugs on social media your posts will be removed. Try it, post how you should try one of these drugs alongside of the vaccine.. that’s suppression.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#408

Post by phroobster » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

I’ve already been diagnosed with covid and it was fine, a little worse than an average cold. Why should I take a vaccine and risk side effects for a disease with a 99.9% survival rate, when I’m not even bothered by it? Doesn’t make sense to me.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#409

Post by kaba0 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #200

RNA can conceivably alter human DNA? How, you might ask, given that human cells don’t use reverse transcriptase? Because due to ancient viral infections there’s a LINE-1[1] gene that codes for it. So it can’t be ruled out that RNA ends up encoded as DNA. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25478632/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27468123

My second paragraph.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#410

Post by GuB-42 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #352

avz wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] lots of people see what looks like the "story changing", and distrust anything coming out of their government, [...]. Changing and updating our beliefs as evidence comes in is a fundamental ability that underlies numerous activities from scientific research to debugging software to driving on a congested road network. Why is it a problem for public health officials to update and change policy as we learn more…

The problem is that the a large chunk of the population aren't scientist so they don't understand the principles of the scientific method. And they aren't software developers, they don't have the mindset for it. And have you seen the way many people drive? There is a reason why the term "defensive driving" was coined.

I think a good understanding of the scientific method, skepticism and fact checking should be taught in school as early as possible.

The only thing students get is material presented as the truth that they have to faithfully accept. They are almost never taught how to deal with unreliable material. It made sense in the pre-internet age where finding information was the hard part, but now, it is the opposite: too much information. So we should focus more on how to filter it.

We had a "general knowledge" class in college and it was an important part of it. We had to make essays and presentations about random subjects and we were judged by our ability to synthesize and verify information. Copy-pasting was actually encouraged, and long as it was from a good source and presented in a way that isn't misleading.

The unfortunate thing is that we should have done exercises like that in primary school and not wait until college.