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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#401

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

For any of this to be a valid arguement you're going to have to explain why places like Australia haven't imploded.

We have a decent minimum wage, social welfare, and hybrid socialised / private healthcare.

Increase wages and conditions gradually, businesses that can't innovate or charge more will fall by the wayside. That happens.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#402

Post by motohagiography »

lucian1900 wrote: post #281
motohagiography wrote: post #149

It's like people don't understand how their wages impact the price of the goods they are producing. The problem is domestic producers can't compete against the actual terrible jobs with poverty wages that foreign producers pay. The trade off is binary. Either you put tariffs on cheaper foreign goods and protect your economy from predatory countries, or you tolerate downward wage pressure. There is no middle ground. I…

You’re describing the effects of imperialism on the working class of the imperialist countries, a point we communists make all the time. It absolutely is a left/right thing, it’s just that the imperialist countries have largely managed to exclude politics left of centre.

Imperialism is bunk and an artifact of a movement predicated on deception, so, there's that. I think the whole critical theory basically lets itself out on reasonable discourse.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#403

Post by rbg246 »

humanrebar wrote: post #338
rbg246 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

A teenager making change on bagel purchases isn't working for "poverty wages". And a business that providing tennagers jobs isn't being exploitive. I do think employers should be conscious about the kinds of lives they set their employees up for, though we can talk about that without overgeneralization.

Any gap in labor law leads to exploitation by a business owner, anything that can lead to business advantage gets used.

Besides I found really distasteful when I was in my 20s being told that I didn't need the additional money because I didn't have a mortgage.

I don't think we need to rely on employer moralism, so Dickensian.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#404

Post by rbg246 »

humanrebar wrote: post #375
bp0017 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with this argument, it's a talking point that over-represents the amount of these jobs held by teenagers earning pocket money. Quite a lot of minimum wage jobs are held by single parents or people just trying to stay afloat. By the way, even if it is just teenagers, I don't think that should somehow disqualify them from earning fair wages. They aren't being "provided" jobs, they work to produce value for a…

I'm more concerned that teenagers in poverty won't be able to get jobs at all.

But you have said yourself it's 'bagel' money, it doesn't seem to be coherent to be defending both teenager after school jobs and teenagers in poverty.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#405

Post by bradleyjg »

zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

One concern is that this makes teenage employees relatively more attractive and so increases the adult unemployment rate above what it would be with a uniform minimum wage.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#406

Post by kukx »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #346
rbg246 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

Exactly. Maintaining laws which force working employees into poverty in order to support inadequate business models is not the solution. Employees outnumber business owners - more people having spending power is vital for the economy.

Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important. How much stuff one should afford to avoid being called poor.

What is the change of the model in case of the restaurant? I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots.

But, if we consider these crappy jobs, what about people that are not qualified/able to do any more advanced jobs? People have vastly different cognitive abilities, it is not like we can teach everyone to code. It will not work.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#407

Post by parineum »

rbg246 wrote: post #325
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

A lot of people who support minimum wage increases don't think that way though. They _do_ think the local McDonald's is raking in cash and not sharing the profits.

Conceptually, I agree with what you're saying (I also feel very strongly about off shore manufacturing for the same reasons) but, practically, when you increase the minimum wage, the poverty jobs will disappear and _eventually_ be replaced. The problem is the transition period. The real minimum wage is always zero.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#408

Post by pnutjam »

humanrebar wrote: post #338
rbg246 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

A teenager making change on bagel purchases isn't working for "poverty wages". And a business that providing tennagers jobs isn't being exploitive. I do think employers should be conscious about the kinds of lives they set their employees up for, though we can talk about that without overgeneralization.

How do you feel about kids saving for or working while attending college? It's pretty rich to say people don't deserve money when they need it.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#409

Post by 0x0000000 »

dstaley wrote: post #362
simfree wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the car and where you live insurance can be lower or higher. Outside of collector/classic car insurance policies (eg: this is not a daily driver car and you agree not to exceed a low number of miles yearly) or parked insurance (a few hundred miles a year), there is not $200 to $300 a year car insurance in the USA. Tribal reservations don't require license plates or insurance usually, and you cab choose t…

> Outside of collector/classic car insurance policies or parked insurance, there is not $200 to $300 a year car insurance in the USA. Absolutely beg to differ. I was on a high-deductible, low-benefit plan for a two-year old used economy car in Louisiana with no marks on my driving record for $250/month. The insurance cost was more than the monthly cost of the car. That being said, it was more than the state mandated…

The user you replied to said per year, not per month.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#410

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

richardjennings wrote: post #397
mywittyname wrote: post #20

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

"and now the exploited have been drained dry". I do not think this is true in the absolute currently. I do think that the modern economies are imparting pressures that will make this more true over time. The question every one asks is "What is the point?". The answer is increasingly, there is no point. What about the answers previous generation might have had; send money home, improve life chances with an education,…

> a room the size of a double bed

No one's building those, so maybe a tent in or near an abandoned mall.

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