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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#401

Post by NotSammyHagar »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

We can say things against China. China shouldn't do this. Plenty of companies don't operate in China, regardless of the money. Google has struggled with this. Apple surrendered and makes phones there and sells them. Disney is trying to surrender with Mulan, but apparently even those they cow-towed to them in extreme ways (in Mulan the movie they 'thank' the help of the Chinese authorities in some of the places that have the Uighur camps! They literally thank them.

The enormous sums these companies believe they will earn in China, the all mighty growth, that overwhelms their ability to consider the implications.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#402

Post by stjohnswarts »

bobbyz wrote: post #378
tharne wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this a lot. There's a loss of confidence in the West, where people feel like you can't call out immoral behavior unless it's committed by another westerner or a western nation. This serves absolutely no one well. The fact that a country or civilization has past sins should not be a disqualification from taking a moral stand in the present. Some form of mild hypocrisy is vastly preferable to sitting silent while…

The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.

Those should be fixed and I would support them. but do I feel guilty about what my ancestors did to my ancestors? No, I don't. I feel we should right the wrongs, but I refuse to fold to the "woke" culture that I should feel like a POS for what my ancestors did.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#403

Post by stjohnswarts »

dinht wrote: post #318
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

Language and customs are valued differently between Europe and East Asia, and one of the reason is poverty. I'll take Vietnam as an example as I grew there and now live in Europe. We (the majority ethnics) do appreciate the cultures from minor ethics In fact, the minor ethnics regions have been a popular destination for young generation to get away from the urban life. On the other hands, we cannot have a blind eyes…

It's not education though or a strong approach. They are literally annihilating the Tibetan culture and ways of life and attempting to force them to supplant it with Chinese culture and ways trying to convince them it is far superior to Tibetan culture.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#404

Post by stjohnswarts »

api wrote: post #339
adventured wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US no longer requires any oil from Saudi Arabia, they're now almost entirely incapable of harming the US with that formerly potent resource weapon in terms of shutting off supply (mostly what they can do to harm US economic interests now instead of turning it off, is to flood the market and damage US producers). For 2019 total US petroleum production (crude + petro products + biofuels) was 19.3m barrels per day (…

It's not about physical imports but about the price of oil which is set internationally. Oil is a global market.

Sure it is now, but if OPEC started raising prices drastically the US government can take measures to control prices here since we are more or less independent as far as oil supplies/refineries go.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#405

Post by actuator »

platinumrad wrote: post #337
actuator wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it an example of "shining at its best" Shining at its best, in terms of making a product that just sells well without the state taking much efforts at it. Like in case of WW2, they just made movies which glorify US's contribution at the expense of others, the product sold well because it was well made. So their role got pushed in the minds of people even outside US. > How about this one? https://en.wikipedia…

The film is absolutely critical of the pointlessness of the war. Its most famous scene is of the PLA getting slaughtered in an ambush. Not everything needs to hit you over the head with a hammer like a documentary film.

> The film is absolutely critical of the pointlessness of the war. Its most famous scene is of the PLA getting slaughtered in an ambush.

That description seems like description of any war movie in general. While you are right about not everything has to be a documentary, my example was related to critical content like that.

To give an example which would be possibly more clear is, look at the current protests in HK. Do media in PRC cover the HKers side fairly on what they are demanding, the magnitude of ground support for the movement in HK, the excesses committed by the HK police daily? Contrast this with BLM protests where most coverage is anti establishment.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#406

Post by stjohnswarts »

baybal2 wrote: post #340
golergka wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points. First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him. Second, supporting current regime in Saudi Arabia sounds barbaric and morally reprehensible — as long as you don't find out who's their internal opposition is. Surprise: it's not freedom-loving democratic westernised students. It's even more radical and aggress…

> First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him. Which didn't prevent them spawning, and continuing support of hundred others like him. What you say is conflating with something like "If USA took down NSDAP, Germans would still burn Jews, and even more of them." It is infuriating. US must stop supporting Sauds, end of…

Actually they don't and won't for a very long time to come. They are a source of stability in the ME that the US won't sacrifice for human rights abuses no matter how loud hacker news gets.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#407

Post by stjohnswarts »

dhagz wrote: post #298
golergka wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases You make it sound as if they were a part of aggressive expansion and colonisation, which is a bit misleading. Vast majority of US military bases are in NATO countries that were very enthusiastic about outsourcing protection from the soviet threat.

It's definitely not colonization, but I'd still say it's aggressive expansion. We just happened to make people think it was a good thing. Looking back now, I'm not so sure it was the net good it was sold as.

the net good is that the USSR didn't overrun Europe after WW2 and they could have easily if the US hadn't set up camp. It may have even still happened without the atomic bomb as a deterrent.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#408

Post by actuator »

free_rms wrote: post #344
actuator wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with the sentiment that US has a lot of soft power influence, I would argue that most of it is just US capitalism shining at its best. I think the best example of this is WW2 related content like movies. In France public perception of who won them World War 2 changed from Soviet Union in 1940s to US in 2000s. [1] One major difference in US soft power is, they don't censor media critical of them to an…

The PRC conflict with Vietnam lasted 3 weeks. Is it possible, that rather than being a massive cover-up, that war simply wasn't a generation-defining moment for them? Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War#Chinese_me...

Short in span, but about 30k deaths in those 3 weeks and being humbled by a much smaller opponent. While I will agree that it might not have been a generational defining moment, but those numbers are massive enough to warrant institutional and popular culture memory as it happened just 41 years back.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#409

Post by stjohnswarts »

platinumrad wrote: post #321
actuator wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with the sentiment that US has a lot of soft power influence, I would argue that most of it is just US capitalism shining at its best. I think the best example of this is WW2 related content like movies. In France public perception of who won them World War 2 changed from Soviet Union in 1940s to US in 2000s. [1] One major difference in US soft power is, they don't censor media critical of them to an…

How is it an example of "shining at its best" when the Soviets made far more sacrifices during WWII only to be robbed of the credit in pretty much all western popular accounts. Yes, they were more brutal to those they defeated in many instances, but that doesn't diminish their military contribution. The US government doesn't engage in direct censorship like the Chinese government but it does have some power, in pract…

I don't know what teachers you had, but all mine taught it was a two pronged effort from USSR and the USA (and allies). It's Russian propaganda to say that it was only Russia that beat the Germans and that D-day was just a minor incursion.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#410

Post by stjohnswarts »

tharne wrote: post #294
yters wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you agree colonialism is wrong, but will not denounce modern colonialism because the usa eliminated indigenous people in the past? colonialism is only wrong if done by the us? and if we need a pristine past to denounce modern injustice, then that is a recipe to accomodate every injustice that comes our way

Welcome to the new left, where the only wrongs that can be discussed are those committed by Europeans or Americans. Ironic, because if you're truly committed to the idea that all people are created equal, you have to acknowledge that that means we all have a similar capacity for evil and brutality, regardless of race or culture.

Basically you're right. I'm extremely progressive on human rights, gender freedom, lgbqt rights, universal health care, etc but I refuse to bend to the whims of the current far left that teach we should hate ourselves (at least if you're a white cis male) and that we should shut up and let those outside that group decide everything and anything. Well I don't play that game and neither should others. Basically they think we should just walk around self flagellating in the public square.
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