Basic Social Skills Guide (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#401

Post by exclusiv » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

rollerboi wrote: post #90

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

I'm the same. A problem solver that people bring information to and also vent to. I have no problem making decisions and I consider my instincts to be very good which can make it worse when I have a solution so soon. I've been working on being a better listener, getting more info and considering more angles and perspectives.

You make some great points above which is what I try to follow too after doing it poorly in the past. It's especially important if you're married. :)

My wife almost always wants my perspective but she wants to be listened to first and to vent on occasion. And also to ensure I have all the information first before I weigh in.

She wants an advisor not a magic 8 ball.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#402

Post by 08-15 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

journalctl wrote: post #271

08-15 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes people just want someone to blame. If you listen, you might become that someone.

Extend a little empathy once in a while. I promise people aren’t out to get you nearly as much as you seemingly believe.

In actual experience, the people in question weren't "out to get me". They complained about things going wrong (due to their own actions), and I listened. Now their failures are my fault, according to some bizarre logic I can't understand, or so I heard through the grapevine.

I don't think any malicious intent was involved. They just tried to protect their fragile egos, and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, I was stupid enough to listen.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#403

Post by retrac » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

dspillett wrote: post #376

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

> I’ve lost friends over this I've stopped helping, or even started avoiding, some "friends" because of this. Of course some tact is needed, and I've sometimes got that wrong. You have to properly listen before making suggestions, perhaps you need to ask questions first too to make sure you actually really understand, and definitely watch for signs (or explicit mentions) that advice/solutions are not wanted at this p…

> An actual quote, yelled before storming off: "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything".

Maybe they wanted comfort, and not a solution?

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#404

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

akdas wrote: post #354

procombo wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made me chuckle. Your "just let them talk for 5 minutes", is another person's "wait until they're receptive to feedback." :) I've never met a frustrated or angry person who is receptive to actual feedback. I'm the same way. Validate my emotional concern first, then move on to the next step. Most of the time all I need to do is vocalize my problem... and that works best when I "have the floor." If you don't mind me su…

> Your "just let them talk for 5 minutes", is another person's "wait until they're receptive to feedback." The way I'd put it is "just let them talk for 5 minutes" is another person's "actually listen to them before offering feedback". I'm constantly surprised by how many people offer advice without even hearing what the problem actually is.

Been guilty of that...

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#405

Post by magashna » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

StuffedParrot wrote: post #392

magashna wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the NASA scientist who got so much shit for wearing a shirt?

No... nothing on google either. Edit: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-come... He wasn’t even fired. What is there to complain about? Cancel culture is a myth.

The guy was brought to tears for wearing a shirt his female friend made. Just because a company doesn't fire someone (and rightfully so) doesn't mean there aren't pitchfork waving mobs screaming for the head of some comedian/artist/random guy.

A great example of satirizing the movement would be 30 Rock's "Idiots are people two!"

Edit: also that you dismissed it, even though googling my comment verbatim would've given you a source, shows that you're starting at your conclusion then working backwards. Trolling isn't appreciated

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#406

Post by adamsea » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #281

ljm wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a coach in training and question number 3 there is a powerful question. That’s a really great question to ask because you’re not getting involved in the topic, you’re not giving them ideas, and you’re not working through it for them. The others are too nuanced to easily explain, but “what are you going to do with that,” is a fucking fantastic question when a friend confides in you. You’re right that this requires…

"My car's been having trouble" "I know a good mechanic" "Oh my god how dare you take my agency away from me, I'm never talking to you again" Good riddance if that's how somebody in my life ever reacted in that situation.

Unasked-for advice is often not actually helpful and more about the advice-giver than the receiver.

They would probably not say that and just slowly freeze you out of their social life because they found you annoying, grating, or unpleasant to interact with.

People often simply want to share what's going on and be heard and recognized. It's a basic human need.

Obviously it all depends on the situation.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#407

Post by csomar » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

Basic communication skills for Websites: Have all the contents in a single page with a table content at the top; instead of me trying to figure out my way through dozens of pages each with very little content.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#408

Post by dobleW » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

hydrox24 wrote: post #324

TeMPOraL wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the simple act of two people wanting to go through the same door at the same time is an impossible conundrum. Tangential, but I hit this issue very often with couple of friends during university years; two of us wanted to go through a door, and get stuck in a "you go", "no, you go", "I insist" loop. At some point I said, "you know what, let's do rock-paper-scissors, if you lose you go first". It immediately ca…

> Even the simple act of two people wanting to go through the same door at the same time is an impossible conundrum. I believe that the optimal solution to this problem is to offer, and then if there is a counter-offer, take it. If the other person is offended then they have followed the letter of the social law but do not understand it in their hearts. In addition, it is often polite to take what is offered to you.

  La extrema urbanidad y cortesía
  agota y cansa la paciencia mía.
  Figúrate lector, y es un ejemplo,
  que entrar queremos en sala, alcoba o gabiente
  y que somos por juntos seis o siete.

  ¿No es un feroz y bárbaro tormento el
  "pase Usted primero" y "faltaría mas, caballero"?
  Y han así de pasar horas galanes y señoras[1],
  estando todos ellos convencidos 
  de lo inútiles que son tales cumplidos.

  Voy a dar aquí un mínimo consejo[1],
  y mírese quien quiera en este espejo:
  cuando te digan que pases adelantes, 
  no te hagas rogar, pasa al instante.

                      Figueroa

[1] Paraphrased, I don't remember this verse right now.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#409

Post by dspillett » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

arthurmerlin wrote: post #395

dspillett wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve lost friends over this I've stopped helping, or even started avoiding, some "friends" because of this. Of course some tact is needed, and I've sometimes got that wrong. You have to properly listen before making suggestions, perhaps you need to ask questions first too to make sure you actually really understand, and definitely watch for signs (or explicit mentions) that advice/solutions are not wanted at this p…

What happens when people tell you about problems that require experts in a specific area to solve, and you are not an expert in that area? Do you still try to help? Like I will tell my friends and family about problems I am having at work because they are my friends and family and I assume that they care about how my life is going. If they are able to provide solutions, I will not rule it out for them. But most likel…

> about problems that require experts in a specific area to solve, and you are not an expert in that area? Do you still try to help?

Depends on the situation. I would certainly make it clear (if I didn't think it was already abundantly so) that anything I said wasn't from a position of expertise.

If someone is simply wanting to sound out a problem, or is seeking to describe their frustration as in your example, that should be fairly obvious from their wording (this tends to fall apart a little when there is a bit of a language barrier, so take extra care in those situations).

They may be deliberately looking for an outsides view - sometimes even a wrong suggestion can jog the mind towards some wood that you've not seen for the trees. Here asking questions can help: if you try to formulate your problem in a way that an outsider understands it can actually help your own understanding, or make you spot the simply thing that you'd managed to miss while "thinking too hard".

Another way of helping rather than directly, particularly in technical matters, is to suggest other helpers ("have you asked [insert someone I think will be able to help for more than I, here]?"). Or even general problem solving help. They may just need a distraction (the old "fresh air / food / hydration / company - then hopefully hit the problem again with a fresher mind).

> When people attempt to give advice on things they don't know about, I assume they are more interested in appearing smart than my well being.

I would agree with that, but only after allowing for the above caveats. And I try to be polite when it happens: the Dunning-Kruger effect can lead people to innocently misunderstand both complexity and scale, through no malice nor desire for self promotion.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#410

Post by dspillett » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #403

dspillett wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve lost friends over this I've stopped helping, or even started avoiding, some "friends" because of this. Of course some tact is needed, and I've sometimes got that wrong. You have to properly listen before making suggestions, perhaps you need to ask questions first too to make sure you actually really understand, and definitely watch for signs (or explicit mentions) that advice/solutions are not wanted at this p…

> An actual quote, yelled before storming off: "oh, that is just like you, trying to solve everything". Maybe they wanted comfort, and not a solution?

If so, maybe that was clear and I missed it. Or maybe it very much wasn't, and they should know me better than to expect different behaviour in that case.