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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#401

Post by raverbashing »

bko wrote: post #374
the-dude wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a history perspective : the hyperinflation leading up to the 3rd Reich.

Which is one reason why capital controls are so destructive. Allowing denizens to keep their savings in whatever form they so choose is a human right. Libra will afford people the option to invest in and use a token that is backed 1 for 1 to a basket of global currencies and government bonds at a low cost.

You can do that without Libra, just buy the equivalent basket, you're even getting real assets instead of something like tether

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#402

Post by civicsquid »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

I think it's more of an anti-tech mindset more than an anti-Facebook mindset. If Google did this, I imagine that Germany would be just as upset.

If, for example, Goldman Sachs did the same thing, that might not go over smoothly, but I don't think it would see such a negative reaction. I'd assume that feels more in line with the status-quo, whereas tech companies getting involved in financial instruments is not as familiar.

I more so wonder what would happen if a company like Stripe did this. They are sort of a "financial" company, but I'd say also undoubtedly a "tech" company too.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#405

Post by drstewart »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #294
Hermel wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Sorry, no. This is just reckless. I'm trying hard to assume good faith here. "Wait and see" is a good approach to see whether your new electric city bus line is working or whether people prefer your website logo in red. You can never, ever take back what became basic necessities on a nation level while being even remotely democratic. Once people have it, they won't give it back. And you seriously think Facebook is to…

Somehow, that typical German mindset doesn't extend to banning VW after its proven to be acting in bad faith. How come?

Ah, nevermind -- HQ: Wolfsburg, Germany. Exempt from regulatory action.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#406

Post by bko »

gjulianm wrote: post #383
bko wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allowing foreign money to be the primary medium of exchange directly challenges monetary policy. Who said anything about a primary medium of exchange? Should dollars be disallowed as well? How about bitcoin? Starbucks gift cards?

Let's be honest, if Libra takes hold as Facebook wants it to, given the power Facebook already has over communications, ads and social networks, it very well could affect the capability of states to exert their own monetary policy. Not a single one of the examples you made had such a real possibility of being as big as Libra could be.

Facebook has a non controlling stake in Libra. Libra Foundation is an independent, not-for-profit membership organization. Do you feel a similar threat of non-profits that try to give financial opportunities to people around the world?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#407

Post by downandout »

burlesona wrote: post #389
lacker wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

It's legally tricky to be anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook, but I don't think it's morally tricky. The entire idea of anti-trust (and frankly, the premise of most western democracies) is to prevent the over-concentration of power. Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non…

Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states.

This is hyperbole at best. Facebook does not have an army, weapons, or literally anyone that would be willing to die or even be physically put out to defend it.

I’m no Facebook fan, but let’s not let Facebook hysteria overrun these comments.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#408

Post by an_ko »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are usually by design not controlled by anyone but the users participating in mining and trading it. Banning that is like banning people from trading in carrots; you can't.

It's very different when there's a company with its own financial interests manning the door, regardless of what company that is.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#409

Post by qubex »

segmondy wrote: post #399

Pride comes before the fall. Facebook should have spent much of their energy fixing their image first and not tackling anything like Libra. If they need money they need to focus on products that provide real value without intruding on privacy. They need to study how Microsoft turned around their image. It takes time.

I think the last thing anybody wants is a vast perceivable immoral entity such as Facebook, which is involved in so many scandals and should likely be broken up if anti-trust enforcers had any bite left to them, insinuating themselves into a fundamental function such as the issuance of money and the transactions thereof. It’s like a hybrid of The Circle and Mr Robot’s Evil Corp’s eCoin.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#410

Post by AdrianB1 »

glitchc wrote: post #341
tannhaeuser wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

The primary purview of the state is geography (borders) and taxation (monetary policy). Allowing foreign money to be the primary medium of exchange directly challenges monetary policy.

See Montenegro, the country that has no own currency, but uses Euro: they have no particular problems because of this.
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