In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

Post by sleepybrett » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #313

thomasmeeks wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, the common refrain I hear from native Seattleites is that many places -- like Fremont, Ballard, and West Seattle, were truly awful in the 80s & 90s. Usually just at the mention of where I live, which is one of those neighborhoods. Compared to Orlando and Salt Lake City, Seattle feels about on par to me with regards to safety and the homeless problem (adjusted for the much higher population & density). Which…

I lived in all three of those places in the early 90s (as a UW student and with my aunt near Alaska Junction in West Seattle). No, at least then, they weren’t as bad, or bad at all. Ballard? I’m not even sure where it being dangerous would come from, maybe getting run down by a bad Norwegian driver? Checkout Cops in Ballard: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlDVmBLibg (Yes, that is Bill Nye)

Post by Spivak » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #370

anaisbetts wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day though, the people breaking into cars are usually doing so because they have no other reasonable means to sustain themselves, or they are compelled to do so because of drug addiction. The long-term _solution_, is to remove these obstacles . In other words, middle-class employed people who are safe in their environment don't really commit crimes - why would they? The best way to solve crime In Ge…

If economics were the main driver, you'd see a strong correlation between crime rates and the economy. But by and large you do not: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUndersta... . > Based on these estimates, the observed 2 percentage point decline in the U.S unemployment rate between 1991 and 2001 can explain an estimated 2 percent decline in property crime (out of an observed drop of almost 30 perc…

Post by Spivak » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

blackflame7000 wrote: post #394

eldridgea wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll definitely admin that I'm interpreting the data to fit their own political/moral views but the conclusion "10 billion on drug incarceration almost pay for themselves through reductions in health care costs and lost productivity" seems that economically the difference in incarcerating addicts and providing them healthcare is negligible. If the economic difference is negligible then what reason is there for incarc…

The issue is that while they are trying to break the addiction they often relapse and because drugs are expensive and also not conducive to holding a job there is a non-negligible percent of people that would continue to break into cars and steal things to pay for their habits. If they aren't hurting anyone ok fine let them go the rehab route first, but if they demonstrate they are a danger to society then they need…

Post by dublinben » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

loft-a-way wrote: post #374

BryantD wrote: post #287

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I've lived in both those cities this decade; the results are in some cases similar, but the issues are in fact different. The thing that's similar : both cities are warm enough so that you can reasonably live on the streets year round. Boston's an intensely liberal city and nobody uses it as an example of how liberal cities always have homeless problems. Similarly, Google "dallas homeless problem" sometime. Warm city…

Homelessness/drug use has indeed become a problem in Boston over the last few years - see [1]Methadone Mile and the problems in the [2]Common. [1] https://apps.bostonglobe.com/graphics/2016/07/methadone-mile... [2] https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/08/21/boston-common-jewel-...

Post by rayiner » Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #403

rayiner wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If economics were the main driver, you'd see a strong correlation between crime rates and the economy. But by and large you do not: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUndersta... . > Based on these estimates, the observed 2 percentage point decline in the U.S unemployment rate between 1991 and 2001 can explain an estimated 2 percent decline in property crime (out of an observed drop of almost 30 perc…

But we’re basically talking about non-violent crimes like theft and drug trafficking where in your own statements the correlation exists. I wouldn’t expect homicide to meaningfully drop in an economic boom since the reasons for murder are so varied.