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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
401–410 of 1001 posts
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#402So this was (IMHO) a shit show from go to whoa. The dog and pony show was a transparent shakedown where Amazon would still probably go where they were always going to go. The whole splitting HQ2 I think showed this. Like it's not even an "HQ" in any sense of the word. It's just an expansion. Also with talk of "25k jobs"... what jobs? Are we talking software engineers or warehouse workers? There's a difference. I don'…
> what jobs? Are we talking software engineers or warehouse workers? Workers with an average salary of $150,000, I think it's disingenuous to act like you don't know that but you're also an expert in property tax reform.
Pay one person a salary of $1m and you can pay 9 people $55k to average $150k. The average means nothing. Will there some site lead earning $20m/year bringing up the average?
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lol dude that never happens.
Yes it does. It's extremely common for businesses to be offered incentives like this. They are usually bounded in a way to ensure it's beneficial to the city. The ones I've seen are requiring a certain number of headcount be maintained over a specific duration, a certain amount in salary be paid out over a specific period of time, and certain infrastructure be installed within a certain period. If these obligations a…
even if that is true (which it isn't) the HQ2 deal had no conditions like that attached.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
So few sentences to be so wrong. First of all, these jobs were all white collar. Amazon's current new grad SDE's in NY and SF both have more than $150k in comp. New grads. Second, the food delivery people for Amazon Fresh are employees of Amazon. The Amazon Flex drivers is what you are talking about, and there is no "mandatory" tip for that service. What you're talking about is something Instacart and DoorDash was do…
Why is this getting downvoted? It's much more accurate than the parent comment. Down voting because you dislike Amazon isn't a valid reason.
The information in the second and third paragraphs is great, but it's being downvoted because the first sentence is unnecessarily antagonistic. HN has succeeded as a place for productive discussion for as long as it has because it still has an ethos of a joining together in a search for the truth. Prefacing a good comment with an insult (even one that might be true) damages the fragile ecosystem of cooperation. It's not that this particular insult is so bad on its own, but its presence encourages others to reply with escalated levels of confrontation. Downvotes help prevent the incivility from spiraling out of control.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an NYC resident I'm glad my elected officials are "butt hurt" at not being involved in a political process that would affect the city in a large way. If they weren't "butt hurt" they really shouldn't be in their jobs.
NYC by virtue of political clout gets to meddle in all sorts of issues that affect upstate and warp them for it's own benefit. This time the state cut a deal that NYC wasn't in on and NYC didn't like it but at the end of the day it's still getting what it wants. Having self government on a local level but then getting constantly steamrolled by a state government that is dominated by some other city really sucks. NYC…
I assure you, we know exactly what that is like when we watch things like MTA funds being reassigned to save upstate ski resorts. And gobs and gobs of money being spent on the East Side Access train tunnel, at the expense of our failing subway system.
New York State has plenty of control over things that matter to the city, and doesn't hesitate to prioritize state concerns.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#406After being a resident of NYC for 30 years and seeing the city change and become a technology hub and just a financial center I think this is a real loss for NYC. It would also be in Long island City which would provide a huge influx of new workers and move that neighborhood forward in development rapidly. The down side would be that it would push some residents and business owners out but this is simply a fact of li…
LIC is one of the most heavily redeveloped areas in the city with 40+ story towers popping up like candy. It didn’t need a development boost. In fact they tore up an existing redevelopment plan for HQ2
I expect the number of tech workers and high income workers will be much less without hq2.
Although I hope that it’s a bustling tech hub in 5 years.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#407I guess I didn't realize how many commentators here were New Yorkers. XD Everyone's moving to more comfortable places with lower costs of living. NYC is not an attractive place for job candidates unless those candidates are already in NYC. Even companies with a strong presence in NYC are expanding in places like Nashville, Omaha, Dallas, Denver, etc. rather than in NYC. At some point, New Yorkers ought to ask themsel…
This is... Simply not accurate. NYC job market for tech is extremely hot and getting hotter.
Consider that your perspective might be skewed because people in lower COL areas tend to be those who place more emphasis on COL?
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this exactly the opposite? Amazon would have destroyed the general economy in NYC like they did in Seattle. This is the city ignoring the big corporation and listening to their people. NYC doesn't need Amazon. It needs to fix it's rail system.
And how do you fix the rail system? With money from... taxes... from well paid workers, for example. I think a lot of people get so caught up in hating on tech workers and opposing gentrification they forget where the money comes from.
The average employee in that 25k cohort would need to be paying $12k worth of state taxes to NY every year for ten years in order to recoup the $3B tax break figure.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it was primarily a deal to ease the regulatory burden of building such a big thing, I'd be all for it. Admittedly NY has an issue now with too many layers of bureaucracy. But this isn't entirely what it is about. It was also about large tax concessions when plenty of large companies are hiring tech in NYC without any of them. A skilled employee in NYC does not last very long at all on the job market. The 25k emplo…
Ugh... any company moving into NY can get these same large tax concessions. Amazon got nothing special outside of reduced regulatory burden. Why is this not understood? This same subsidy is now going to go to 15 companies who all probably pay less on average than Amazon. There are skilled workforces outside of NY, believe it or not. And they aren't going to go through the regulatory burdens to expand NY to a major ca…
>"Ugh... any company moving into NY can get these same large tax concessions."
Really? Let look at what was offered:
1 $897 million from the city’s Relocation and Employment Assistance Program (REAP) and
2 $386 million from the Industrial & Commercial Abatement Program (ICAP)
3 $1.2 billion in “Excelsior” credits
4 $505 million in a capital grant
Yes the first 3 are existing programs. But the idea that those sums or anything remotely close to them would simply be made available to any company moving to NY is comical at best. Now lets look at number 4, a 505 million dollar capital grant. That's a pure giveaway compliment of the tax payer. And let's remember that both the city and state governments put together dedicated teams to find this money for Amazon. This was in addition to the work the city and state did for give Amazon data, such as "detailed information on the availability of machine-learning specialists, user-experience designers and hardware engineers."[1]
There is no way any of this is available to "any company moving to NY."
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/technology/amazon-new-yor...
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
And how do you fix the rail system? With money from... taxes... from well paid workers, for example. I think a lot of people get so caught up in hating on tech workers and opposing gentrification they forget where the money comes from.
Taxes from 25,000 making low six figures pales in comparison to the incentives handed to the corporation. What is a better investment for NY, handing 3b to amazon, putting 3b directly into the rail system, or putting 3b in an investment fund and making use of the dividends? I'm not sure, but I can't help but think that if amazon figures 3b is a good deal for them, then it is an irresponsible use of public funds to en…
Suppose each worker makes $150k/year in income and spends $50k a year. That would come out to about $187M in income taxes and $125M in sales taxes each year from the directly employed individuals. There is likely to additional revenue as well. The economic impact studies commissioned by the mayor and governor put the expected revenue in the $20B+ range over 25 years.
It’s become very stylish to rage against corporations. I wish people would take a more rational point of view. We shouldn’t be hating on successful businesses for fun.
Edit: also, I’m not sure, but isn’t the $3B a reduction in taxes Amazon would have paid? So it’s not like NY had that money to begin with. It’s jist a reduction in what they would receive.
Ref: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/amazon-...