Earlier quoted context omitted.
Domain names aren't mandatory. IP addresses still work.
For now. The question of "where does it stop" is still on the table.
ARP. To Ethernet address resolution, and no further.
A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
401–410 of 473 posts
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is if there is alternative and if this thing applies consistently. If I want to create a club which only accept men or whites it will not be allowed and there was the famous case with the bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding. The supreme court in the US actually sided with the bakery but then there is the question of alternative and whether it is a monopoly. The bakery was certainly not a…
This is very very difficult to read. Instead of writing extemporaneously as one thinks it would profit you to break your thoughts into paragraphs. A few minutes spent editing the end result, trimming the fat, and organizing what remains could profit innumerable readers. I believe that the public interest is that the broader web be accessible to all comers. That means that it ought to it ought to be possible for infor…
Sorry, was too lazy, just wanted to dump my thoughts.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes the 'deplatforming' threat viable is that so many critical aspects of an online business are a choice between private-enterprise players. Stripe or Authorize.net. AWS or DigitalOcean. GoDaddy or Namecheap. As you suggest, they have no individual legal obligation to serve a business that may cause bad press/high risk/whatever. But when you can enough of them pointing in the same direction, it creates the ch…
> it creates the chilling effect-- a business that's technically legal but can't get the services they need They can get it, but have to pay for that. Just like the porn industry had to build their own payment providers. The chilling effect is working as intended. You need something in society to make people find common ground and live in a similar reality. The current US seems like a great example of people not bein…
>They can get it, but have to pay for that. Just like the porn industry had to build their own payment providers.
There are two problems with that argument.
First, it's nowhere near as trivial as you make it sound. A one man shop could potentially build and maintain a custom forum service himself, but trying to create a real-world ready payment processing infrastructure from scratch is going to mean a team of tens of specialists.
The porn industry was able to solve it because it was a big, industry-wide problem that left a lot of money on the table-- a need big enough to create a market for specialists.
Second, it may not be possible to bypass every firm that presents a deplatforming risk. The porn industry may have avoided rejection by the mainstream gateway providers, but they're still dependent on retaining good relationsips with Visa and Mastercard at the end of the day. I'd think those guys are the nuclear option for deplatforming-- no matter who you line up to take your payments, if you can't accept 90% of the cards on the market, you're not going to be able to monetize effectively.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, once again, " Are you willing to compel Stripe by threat of force to keep processing credit cards for nazis? "
"Somebody someone else really doesn't like" != Nazi When we start throwing that word around, along with describing groups as "far right" (or indeed "far left") when they've started getting more votes than the [previously] mainstream groupings, we appear have a problem with nomenclature.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_state_election,_2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_state_election,_2018 https:…
I assume that you have a proposal that would differentiate between the two? So that they would be forced to serve "somebody someone else really doesn't like", but not be forced to serve Nazis?
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume it means the mass of people might stop using those services (like paypal) because they don't want to support sites that talk about racist things like happens with gab. gab is different than say reddit to me because while reddit might have some people posting racist things or threatning to kill someone or rape them, but reddit will ban them or the group - but allowing for that kind of speech ends up appearing…
Wells Fargo has laundered billions of dollars for drug cartels, yet people have not stopped using them: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/al-capone-meet-wells... If people can't get off their asses to stop working with a company that has worked with organizations responsible for thousands of deaths, I don't think support of Gab is going to drive anyone's payment platform decisions.
So you think somebody else should make that business decision, rather than the actual company involved? Who would that be?
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is if there is alternative and if this thing applies consistently. If I want to create a club which only accept men or whites it will not be allowed and there was the famous case with the bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding. The supreme court in the US actually sided with the bakery but then there is the question of alternative and whether it is a monopoly. The bakery was certainly not a…
I wonder how many of the people arguing for the good of deplatforming have, in other circumstances, argued that internet access is a human right. Also, those denying that internet access is a human right decrying deplatforming. It’s interesting the interaction between those two ideas.
Internet access is not the same as forcing somebody else to host your content. I think most people can tell the difference.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#407Reading this article is like watching someone beat the ocean with a stick. What would it look like for an "anti-deplatforming" initiative to succeed? All ideas have equal access to all platforms? Just the big ones? The objective is so poorly formed, it's not even wrong. A platform's identity and ability to attract an audience are determined by the activities they accept / cultivate, not vice versa. Infowars wanted to…
> A platform's identity and ability to attract an audience are determined by the activities they accept / cultivate, not vice versa. No it's not. Stop it. Nobody goes on or off facebook because of the activities they accept. If that was the case, nobody would use facebook because everyone is offended by everything. > Infowars wanted to be on Facebook because it made it easier to sell your grandparents vitamin supplem…
You appear to think that you know what would be better for Facebook's business than Facebook itself does.
Perhaps you should take your business acumen and start a Facebook competitor.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
Deplatforming fuels polarization, so one thing I would look at the PEW research study that shows how the center has collapsed, making it impossible for moderates to win elections: http://www.epsilontheory.com/things-fall-apart-pt-1/
The center collapsed before deplatforming was a big thing. I think you have the arrow of causation backward. Deplatforming is driven by increasing polarization. The center collapsed because the establishment discredited itself in the 2000s: Iraq, the housing bubble, banks-before-people bailouts, etc. Now everyone is flailing around looking for alternatives. The hard right was first to the dance, but I see a lot of si…
Interesting thought. Given that the majority in all western countries already seem pretty OK with wealth redistribution in the form of their current welfare systems, calling for more of it doesn't seem that extreme.
But I could turn out to be wrong about that. We certainly live in interesting times.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. It is all very obvious. For example, suppose a marginalized group uses the hashtag #killallwhitemen to express the disempowerment they feel from the historical weight of white privilege. This, I think we can all agree, is an expression of righteous outrage through hyperbole, not intolerance. In fact, "white men" in this context does not refer to any person or group of people, rather a self-reenforcing system of…
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Please don't post cheap ideological flamebait, or any flamebait, to HN. It makes this place worse and is not what the site is for.
Re: A Heretic's Guide to Deplatforming
#410Reading this article is like watching someone beat the ocean with a stick. What would it look like for an "anti-deplatforming" initiative to succeed? All ideas have equal access to all platforms? Just the big ones? The objective is so poorly formed, it's not even wrong. A platform's identity and ability to attract an audience are determined by the activities they accept / cultivate, not vice versa. Infowars wanted to…
> A platform's identity and ability to attract an audience are determined by the activities they accept / cultivate, not vice versa. No it's not. Stop it. Nobody goes on or off facebook because of the activities they accept. If that was the case, nobody would use facebook because everyone is offended by everything. > Infowars wanted to be on Facebook because it made it easier to sell your grandparents vitamin supplem…
If you continue to post uncivilly to HN we are going to have to ban you again.
Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.