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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#401

Post by BonesJustice »

tj-teej wrote: post #317
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

If you replace "fuzzy human speech-command detection" with "buttons which can accidentally be pressed" - how is this different from butt-dialing?

I can't pick up my coworker's phone and manually dial a number, because years of learning from our mistakes have led us to implement lock screens and such.

I can, however, say "Hey Siri, call 867-5309." Or "Hey Siri, Facebook status: my anus is bleeding. SEND!"

Because we are apparently incapable of applying past lessons to new technologies.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#402

Post by darpa_escapee »

kinsomo wrote: post #330
tree_of_item wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intent is a very important factor when answering the question "should the lights be one," I don't think you'll be able to predict that. For instance: if movement is detected in the bedroom at 2AM, should the lights come on? The answer is: a very strong maybe. You would be collecting data from many sources in order to predict intent. This is why you need a centralized server.

> You would be collecting data from many sources in order to predict intent. This is why you need a centralized server. Please explain, exactly, what other sources you would collect data from and how the central server would process it to determine if I want the lights on in the middle of the night. IMHO, determining intent in this scenario is impossible without... 1. a mind-reading sensor, or... 2. an explicit user…

> Please explain how, exactly, what other sources you would collect data from and how the central server would process it to determine if I want the lights on.

Machine learning navel-gazing is the new "throw a start-up at it", so I'm guessing the answer to this is going to be "if we have enough data..."

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#403

Post by ocdtrekkie »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #376
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, dude, I know being a fan of Google is your thing here, but this was less than a year ago: http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/11/technology/google-home-mini-... And it's a flaw so bad they had to outright remove the button entirely, because they couldn't fix it without replacing the hardware. It's a little disingenuous to insinuate a bug with recording audio is a reason people shouldn't be buying company X's product ove…

Google quickly fixed the issue caused by the person putting it in the bathroom and causing the button to stick. The person that it happened to got a pre-release version. Google even went to the persons house on a Friday evening to resolve. The person found the problem on the same day. None of the units sold to the general public had the issue. Realize Google literally dropped everything to take care of the issue. Now…

Google took the top spot because they're giving them away for free. Sales numbers are easy to pad, see the New York Times Bestseller lists woes in that regard.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#404

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Declanomous wrote: post #386
duxup wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the inverse experience. My wife's laptop had a touch screen and I thought "What a dumb idea, what use is that?" Then she'd ask me for help and rather than have to wait for her to find what button I was talking about I'd just tap the screen a few times and we were off and running again!

I bought the original Surface Pro the week it came out. I actually really like the interface and thought that it was great. I didn't really understand why so many people hated Windows 8 until I tried to use in on a desktop. Even with a touchscreen it's pretty annoying. I'd been using Linux as my primary OS for years at that point, so I think I'm pretty critical of Microsoft in general, however they did a good job bui…

I'd definitely agree with regards to the Surface, and a lot of Windows 8/10's UI makes a lot more sense once you see it on a phone as well. I'd say Microsoft did a poor job retaining the existing experience for desktop users while focusing so heavily on new form factors and experiences.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#405

Post by myself248 »

Back in the early 90s, I remember seeing a cartoon in one of the tech magazines, possibly BYTE or PC/Computing. It featured an elevator opening onto a floor of office cubicles.

The guy in the elevator screams "COMPUTER! FORMAT SEE COLON SLASH WHY ENTER" across the whole cube farm. The doors close, and the elevator is gone.

Caption was something along the lines of "Speaker-independent voice recognition might be a bit tricky."

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#406

Post by BonesJustice »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #395
BonesJustice wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this alleged 'conspiracy' story? An Amazon device recorded a private conversation and transmitted it to someone else, and it did so without the user's knowledge or intent. That actually happened. How it happened is only relevant to the engineers who build and maintain the thing. I, on the other hand, could not care less how it happened, and the fact that it did happen is reason enough never to buy one of thos…

>How it happened is only relevant to the engineers who build and maintain the thing. I, on the other hand, could not care less how it happened I'm sorry, this is just stupid. If you cannot see the distinction between a feature that was intended to spontaneously record audio, and a bug caused by faulty voice-processing, then that's on you. The distinction is pretty critical

Critical to what, exactly? The consequences to the user are the same.

Obviously, intentionally designing a feature that spontaneously records and transmits audio is a problem for many reasons. But the lack of intent does not magically erase the consequences for the people who experience this kind of bug.

And, to be clear, this was not simply a matter of "faulty voice-processing". The fact that this could happen without the user's knowledge is a problem in itself. Clearly, there are inadequate visual and audio cues, and insufficient or nonexistent verification. Those failures are not bugs; they are bad design and engineering.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#407

Post by gricardo99 »

The most shocking thing about this story is how a customer was able to get qualified engineering support for an unusual support request, from a large company.

Or... what's missing is the hours spent going through support tiers 1 through N, and somehow not getting dropped/lost along the way.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#408

Post by darpa_escapee »

bluGill wrote: post #367
Anon1096 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what exactly does this "vulnerability" mean in real terms? Let's be honest. No one cares what conversations are going on in your house _unless_ you're someone specifically targeted. There's little use in mopping up data with no goal.

If mopping up everybody's conversations is cheap enough Russia/Iran/China/(insert your favorite large evil) does. If you happen to run of political office 15 years from now having all your conversations available to analyze will be useful. If they don't like you, you might find some out of context snippet of "private conversation" all over social media killing your campaign. (or alternatively the blackmail threat if…

Economic espionage is a mainstay of intelligence agencies, so you don't even need to play the potential politician scenario out.

Just working for a company that an agency is surveilling is enough to make you worth targeting.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#409

Post by robotmlg »

duxup wrote: post #327
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

I remember the first voice command stuff on google. Buddy of mine was trying it out and I couldn't help myself but shout: "NEW TEXT MESSAGE TO JENNY! FUCK YOU! SEND!" Fortunately the phone was too slow to take it all (even if it had Jenny would have found it amusing, she was a cube or two away). But yeah first thing I thought of was that if it's listening how easy is it for it to mistake intent or someone else or etc…

> As it is I hate how I can't talk ABOUT "ok google" around my phone... because it always goes off.

On several tech podcasts I listen to (http://atp.fm, https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/) they use fillers like "Yo, dingus!" to talk about alexa/hey siri/ok google

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#410

Post by biot »

nazz wrote: post #290
kinsomo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produc…

Your solution is simple. However, it doesn't allow for as much modification as the original poster's idea. With his idea it could be modified in so many ways to add functionality because it wouldn't be limited by the technology. The solution you supplied will eventually be limited by the technology if the original poster wants to add other functions.

YAGNI. You can get to a 90% solution today at 10% of the cost and effort. If, later, you want to extend the system you’ll not only have learned a lot about the operations and failure modes of the current system, but hardware purchased later will be cheaper and may support even more functionality.
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