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An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

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Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#41

Post by WildUtah »

darkr wrote: post #39
WildUtah wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nine million on Ireland in 1845?! They tell us the famine was caused by monoculture; they tell us it was a fungus; they tell us it was English land and farm policy; they tell us it was inequality; they tell us it was import quotas. But they never mention that Ireland was horribly overcrowded. Nine million is jam packed horror. At six million today, Ireland should be closed to immigration and paying naturalized Easter…

Really? Ireland has 13% of the population density of England, and around 1% of the population density of Greater London, both of which are keeping their heads above water just fine.

England and similarly dense countries like Bengala-Desh are horribly overcrowded. The locals are desperate to send home immigrants and refuse even to replace themselves by having enough babies.

And that's after concentrating a large population in Europe's largest city so that they can at least have a little open space elsewhere.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#43

Post by pyre »

s_dev wrote: post #7

Ireland is interesting. It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 up until the late 1980s and now is the odd man out in Europe as being one of the few countries that can grow its population. Ireland has had a recession since 2008 but ended last year with a return to slow growth and during this time had high unemployment and high emigration. It's expected to be the fastest growing European e…

> t suggests all of Ireland is growing somewhat evenly when the truth is that while most if is growing Dublin and her surrounding area and Cork are growing much faster than the rest and the picture doesn't indicate that though I'm sure the data will.

As far as I could tell, the darkest red colour represents '> 2% population growth,' so that graphic is not much good at breaking down areas that are all experiencing more than 2% growth.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#44

Post by pyre »

kryptiskt wrote: post #18
s_dev wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoverished and detest the British even more than what they previously did. It probably was the single most important factor in shaping modern Ireland. Many here are probably aware that Ireland had in 1845 a population of 9 Million but only 6 Million today (all Islan…

> If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict. In a way it has, there are that many with Irish ancestry in America, not strange as emigration there cost Ireland much more people than the famine.

Wasn't one of the forces dictating this migration the famine itself?

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#45

Post by fwn »

merb wrote: post #19
Someone wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"still looks to be strong" As you know, you can't tell that from this picture. An area that has had large annual population decreases for the first 5 years, and slower growth for the second 5 will still show up as red. Also, quite a bit of the population decreases in the countryside will be of people moving into the cities. Because of differences in population density, that can give the impression of population decli…

Why should the growth of economy be a miracle if the population is shrinking? Mostly that's why the population is shrinking, people who live in the better economies, mostly have less kids, mostly due to the fact that they don't have the time and mostly working harder than others. Also our economy grown mostly cause of the fact that our strong export got a huge increase since we had a european currency ("Deutsche Mark…

I highly doubt that people work harder in advancing economies.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#46

Post by WildUtah »

notNow wrote: post #35
zzleeper wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if that's true. Pick Spain: Madrid and all surrounding cities (Toledo, etc.) are a big shade of red. Barcelona and in fact the entire densely populated Mediterranean coast (Valencia, etc.) is also lipstick-red. Sure, let's look at the Basque Country. Also red. The only blue I see is in the mostly rural Extremadura, Leon, etc. (close to Portugal). So even if pop. decreased, not everyone moved from e.g. Ma…

As I see it, most of the blue blobs are in Portugal and Galicia or the Northwest in general. Other population centers in Spain are growing despite the recession and stratospheric youth unemployment. Also worth mentioning, Spanish people are still regarded to be religious to some extent and so are the Greek. So, I'm a bit surprised to see the divergence here where Greeks shun marriage and raising children while their…

"So, I'm a bit surprised to see the divergence here where Greeks shun marriage and raising children while their Spanish counterparts still hold to these traditional values."

Huh?

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

Looks like South Europe has abandoned having enough children to replace themselves simultaneously. One cannot blame them: those countries are horribly overpopulated, even more so than the USA.

And what few babies there are are significantly being born to Middle Eastern and African settlers attracted by gullible immigration policies that overcrowded countries can ill afford.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#47

Post by seszett »

WildUtah wrote: post #42
sgt101 wrote: post #24

They've left the Falklands off the map! How come? I mean, Guyane's there!

The map desperately need St. Pierre and Michelob. Also we need to see how the illegal French occupied population of Clipperton Island is changing.

I don't know why it is so desperately needed, but Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon seems to have lost about 3% population during this period, going from 6300 in 1999 to 6069 in 2012.

Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon, New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Wallis-et-Futuna are rarely included in such stats as they are not part of the EU and not geographically part of Europe either, unlike French Guiana and the others which are part of EU, so at least part of Europe in a political sense.

(Symbiote, all of these territories are very much part of France though, just under different rules for some of them.)

I don't know where you're going with Clipperton though, it's sometimes illegally visited and trashed by fishers and such, but they can't be considered a population in any sense.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#48

Post by jameshart »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #29
jameshart wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Ireland had similar population density to Southeast England, it would have a population of around 39 million.

England has forests, nature reserves, fjords elsewhere. That's why this region can be so dense? Why would you want to build up everything? Where's the gain I wonder?

Setting questionable English 'fjords' aside, the point isn't that it would be desirable to have a population of 30 million in Ireland, but that it would be possible, without having the population density (and presumably poverty) of Bangladesh. You asked how a small island in the north atlantic could sustain more than 30 million people - well, South East England has a population density of about 1200 people per square mile, at a similar latitude. Transplant that same population density to Ireland and you'd fit 39 million people. So, if you want to know what an Ireland with 30 million people in it would look like, don't imagine Bangladesh, think of Southeast England.

And Southeast England is still considered a pretty beautiful, green part of the world. It contains the South Downs and New Forest national parks, the Chiltern hills, and about 60% of the land in the region is actively farmed. Of course, in the middle of it you've got London, which accounts for the overall density. So yes, a populated Ireland would be different; Dublin and Belfast would be vastly different cities; - but it wouldn't have stopped being the emerald isle if in an alternate history its population had reached 30m.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#49

Post by seanalltogether »

s_dev wrote: post #7

Ireland is interesting. It's long been the sick man in terms of population growth since 1845 up until the late 1980s and now is the odd man out in Europe as being one of the few countries that can grow its population. Ireland has had a recession since 2008 but ended last year with a return to slow growth and during this time had high unemployment and high emigration. It's expected to be the fastest growing European e…

Northern Ireland has had a negative migration trend ever since the 90's. http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demography/population/midyea...

However the birthrate is far outstripping any emmigration losses so they continue to have a largely positive population growth.

Re: An Incredibly Detailed Map of Europe's Population Shifts

#50

Post by darkr »

WildUtah wrote: post #41
darkr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Ireland has 13% of the population density of England, and around 1% of the population density of Greater London, both of which are keeping their heads above water just fine.

England and similarly dense countries like Bengala-Desh are horribly overcrowded. The locals are desperate to send home immigrants and refuse even to replace themselves by having enough babies. And that's after concentrating a large population in Europe's largest city so that they can at least have a little open space elsewhere.

As a long-term resident of one of the most diverse boroughs in London, I can vouch for my own lack of desperation to deport immigrants, though I'm sure you can find the same xenophobic vocal minority that can find in most countries if you look hard enough. Though I do conceed that I am finding the task of replacing myself with a baby somewhat difficult, which may or may not be due to lack of large, sparsely populated land mass.
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