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Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

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Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#41

Post by oldmanjay »

oldmanjay wrote: post #36
steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

I'm having a hard time understanding the "hate speech is violence" perspective. I feel like that position can only be held by someone who has never actually been assaulted using real, actual violence. I guarantee, being punched feels a heck of a lot worse than standing next to a person who (potentially) talked positively about slavery.

As a follow up, I've read a bunch of Unqualified Reservations since this whole brouhaha started (and I read some before, I find it occasionally amusing) and I've never seen any of the racism or hate speech I see claimed. I have seen a lot of out-of-context examples, but every one I tracked down was simply using shocking imagery to make a larger point. There is quite a bit that speaks frankly of slavery and the relationships involved, but nothing I've seen that I could consider racist, unless the very concept of slavery is supposed to be considered racist... which is ridiculous, in my opinion.

edit: wording

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#42

Post by ptomato »

oldmanjay wrote: post #36
steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

I'm having a hard time understanding the "hate speech is violence" perspective. I feel like that position can only be held by someone who has never actually been assaulted using real, actual violence. I guarantee, being punched feels a heck of a lot worse than standing next to a person who (potentially) talked positively about slavery.

If speech advocating things (or "public identification with") that are harmful is violence, communism certainly qualifies with a death count of around 150 million.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#43

Post by steveklabnik »

saryant wrote: post #38
steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

How do you reconcile your statement that "I have not called for violence against any person and do not condone it." and your tweet about being "100% okay" with a violent "antifa" movement? http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/steve.png

> I support communities defending themselves against violence.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#44

Post by rayiner »

Ironically, conservatives wouldn't be working themselves up over why Strangeloop might want to exclude Yarvin. Tribalism is intrinsic to humanity, and central to the concept of a tribe is the power to exclude. We like to associate with people that think like we do. We place limits on that for idealistic reasons, but it's ridiculous and futile to try and erase all elements of tribalism from our social interactions.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#45

Post by d9h549f34w6 »

tjradcliffe wrote: post #31
d9h549f34w6 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one support Curtis on this issue, but tend not to post here on the subject except under an alternate username. I do this because I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line. If I were to hazard a guess, I think I'm not alone in this and I think you're not in a minority (or at least a small one). The recent HN stories…

> I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line This is something I'd love see SJW's here react to. How do you feel about the fact that you have created a climate of fear amongst people who disagree with you? Would you prefer convincing them of the correctness of your position, but willing to accept that at least by making th…

My guess is that they would be happy that they've created that climate of fear. I've noticed a trend among at least some in the "social justice" community that sees progress happening in terms of suppressing bad actions/speech until those who remember it die off. A lot of believing that the way forward is to akin to waiting for the "old racist generation" to die.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#46

Post by sudioStudio64 »

oldmanjay wrote: post #36
steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

I'm having a hard time understanding the "hate speech is violence" perspective. I feel like that position can only be held by someone who has never actually been assaulted using real, actual violence. I guarantee, being punched feels a heck of a lot worse than standing next to a person who (potentially) talked positively about slavery.

I get where you are coming from but verbal abuse can be incredibly scarring. As someone that experienced both I can assure you of that... And ill grant that you weren't really talking about abusive speech... But hate speech especially from a superior...be it job or school... An authority figure, I could see where that would be just as bad.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#47

Post by saryant »

steveklabnik wrote: post #43
saryant wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile your statement that "I have not called for violence against any person and do not condone it." and your tweet about being "100% okay" with a violent "antifa" movement? http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/steve.png

> I support communities defending themselves against violence.

There has been no violence in this situation.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#48

Post by lsiebert »

lexcorvus wrote: post #9
savanaly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is wondering about the actual views and arguments of Moldbug and his neoreactionaries, they were covered and responded to by economist blogger Noah Smith here. http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2014/01/neoreactionaries.... The crux of it (and something I never saw quite covered in all the essays bouncing around) is "Essentially, neoreaction is the dream of a society of mostly white people, living in a hier…

the actual views and arguments Getting the views of neoreactionaries from Noah Smith is like getting the views of Luther's 95 Theses from Pope Leo X. How about, you know, just reading Moldbug? http://moldbuggery.blogspot.com

I did read some. I was particularly struck by his advocating getting rid of democracy.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#49

Post by steveklabnik »

saryant wrote: post #47
steveklabnik wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I support communities defending themselves against violence.

There has been no violence in this situation.

The context of the tweet is general anti-fascist activities in France, not this or any other specific situation.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#50

Post by ta92929 »

steveklabnik wrote: post #43
saryant wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile your statement that "I have not called for violence against any person and do not condone it." and your tweet about being "100% okay" with a violent "antifa" movement? http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/steve.png

> I support communities defending themselves against violence.

Interpreting @glaurent's tweet as describing self defense is a stretch in my opinion.

  we have an "antifa" movement in France (reacting to our 
  rising far right), and they're often just as violent :-(
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