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Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

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Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#31

Post by tjradcliffe »

d9h549f34w6 wrote: post #17
nkurz wrote: post #8

In case you were wondering what Curtis's talk might have been about (and whether it would have held any technical merit) this page has a link to Clark's earlier introduction to Urbit: http://popehat.com/2013/12/06/nock-hoon-etc-for-non-vulcans-... The "Exit, voice, and loyalty" terminology might seem odd if you don't know it's origins. It's from 1970 book by economist A. O. Hirschman that's coming back in popularity:…

I for one support Curtis on this issue, but tend not to post here on the subject except under an alternate username. I do this because I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line. If I were to hazard a guess, I think I'm not alone in this and I think you're not in a minority (or at least a small one). The recent HN stories…

> I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line

This is something I'd love see SJW's here react to. How do you feel about the fact that you have created a climate of fear amongst people who disagree with you?

Would you prefer convincing them of the correctness of your position, but willing to accept that at least by making them afraid you are helping further your cause?

Or are you concerned you've become the kind of discourse-stiffling monster you set out to defeat?

Or are you proud you've made the priviledged afraid?

Or something else entirely?

Because don't kid yourself: people are increasingly afraid to speak up on these issues because they are genuinely afraid of the consequences to their future employment prospects. Personally, I see that as a shameful situation, antithetical to any reasonable notion of a just society.

[Disclaimer: I've been accused at times of being an SJW, an MRA, a shill for Big Carbon, and quite a few other things besides.]

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#32

Post by steveklabnik »

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d

Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue.

(They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.)

As I said in the last thread, I don't really plan on reading and responding to much here, but since this is on the front page, might as well correct the inaccuracy.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#33

Post by davidgerard »

amcastillo wrote: post #11
lexcorvus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the actual views and arguments Getting the views of neoreactionaries from Noah Smith is like getting the views of Luther's 95 Theses from Pope Leo X. How about, you know, just reading Moldbug? http://moldbuggery.blogspot.com

Looks like this person edited their comment. Anyway, you're right, Noah Smith is one of the less objective filters you could seek to fairly summarize a right-of-left-of-center viewpoint. Read Moldbug, people.

Life is far too short to actually read Moldbug. The man seriously does not state his thesis until at least 1000 words in (I am not exaggerating).

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#34

Post by protomyth »

tjradcliffe wrote: post #31
d9h549f34w6 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one support Curtis on this issue, but tend not to post here on the subject except under an alternate username. I do this because I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line. If I were to hazard a guess, I think I'm not alone in this and I think you're not in a minority (or at least a small one). The recent HN stories…

> I do in fact fear the "social justice" crowd and their ability to mess with people and their careers when they don't follow the party line This is something I'd love see SJW's here react to. How do you feel about the fact that you have created a climate of fear amongst people who disagree with you? Would you prefer convincing them of the correctness of your position, but willing to accept that at least by making th…

"How do you feel about the fact that you have created a climate of fear amongst people who disagree with you?"

I don't think they care or, more specifically, if you fear then you don't think correctly and should shut-up[1]. Its quite a common attitude in movements and has happened many times.

1) or they'll add you to a blacklist to shut you up - the clean modern version of disappearing a person

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#36

Post by oldmanjay »

steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

I'm having a hard time understanding the "hate speech is violence" perspective. I feel like that position can only be held by someone who has never actually been assaulted using real, actual violence. I guarantee, being punched feels a heck of a lot worse than standing next to a person who (potentially) talked positively about slavery.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#37

Post by davidgerard »

Kelly2 wrote: post #29

To play devil's advocate, a conference is not only about the speeches, but also about the people you can meet there. Inviting Moldbug bring not only his own person but also his followers. It's understandable if your goal is to foster a diverse crowd to not invite a group of people who constantly argue against any kind of modern society.

To be fair, neoreactionaries are mostly notable for their startling lack of real-world achievements. Yarvin is exceptional in this regard. (Tunney has disclaimed "neoreaction" of late.) They tend to have extensive blogging credentials, however. (And are a dab hand with an occasional cheese dip.)

edit: if there are others with notable real-world achievements, I will eagerly accept correction.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#38

Post by saryant »

steveklabnik wrote: post #32

I've protected my twitter account because of https://gist.github.com/steveklabnik/7cd3267a631c4847c34d Basically, a Breitbart columnist said that they were putting an article about me today. When this happens, a wave of harassment generally follows. I did not delete that or any other tweet on this issue. (They seem to have decided to post about something else instead, we'll see.) As I said in the last thread, I don't…

How do you reconcile your statement that "I have not called for violence against any person and do not condone it." and your tweet about being "100% okay" with a violent "antifa" movement?

http://popehat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/steve.png

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#39

Post by sudioStudio64 »

Kelly2 wrote: post #29

To play devil's advocate, a conference is not only about the speeches, but also about the people you can meet there. Inviting Moldbug bring not only his own person but also his followers. It's understandable if your goal is to foster a diverse crowd to not invite a group of people who constantly argue against any kind of modern society.

That's a good way of putting something I was thinking. And you clearly said "devils advocate"...it may be an unpopular point but its probably close to what the organizers were actually thinking.

Re: Two Kinds of Freedom of Speech (or Strangeloop vs. Curtis Yarvin)

#40

Post by maxmax »

nemo wrote: post #13

While Moldbug holds hideous political views, if the talk is on tech. and doesn't overlap him advocating hideous things, then this is akin to the old Hollywood blackballing, the excuse for dropping him was pathetic, and I agree that promoting a culture of free speech must be a core value of a liberal society. I'm pretty far-left (though more liberal than leftist), and found the black-and-white leftist-bashing in the a…

Hitler was a decent painter, but I wouldn't want him in my gallery.
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