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Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

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Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#41

Post by jsjohnst »

beambot wrote: post #40
jsjohnst wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've a number of friends on various teams, from WebKit, to iOS, to datacenter folks, to various app teams, and hardware teams and not one has ever consistently worked a 40hr work week. Most are easily averaging 50-60, with spurts close to or over 100 before launches. Consistently the message I've heard is people are expected to "work till its ready", so I'm not sure where you'd have heard this about Apple.

> show up, do good work... > work 50-60 hrs per week Those aren't incompatible. In fact, based on current and former Apple employees I know, you're both right. It's also worth pointing out the extreme compartmentalization at Apple. I imagine that makes it more difficult to get a handle on systems-level considerations that are so key for lean startup teams.

You are definitely right, I focused more on the "go home to family" part.

Many I know at Apple have had relationship issues with significant others and family due to the sometimes grueling pace and "CIA spy" level secrecy some teams are forced to have even with their spouses.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#42

Post by gumby »

bomanbot wrote: post #19

Maybe another reason why Apple spawned comparatively few startups might be that some of the areas of expertise for Apple and their employees are harder to do in startup-sized companies; namely hardware engineering and mass manufacturing innovation. Apple does a lot of work in hardware and hardware manufacturing, both areas which are pretty capital-intensive and might not lead themselves as easily to the startup world…

> ...harder to do in startup-sized companies; namely hardware engineering and mass manufacturing innovation.

Don't forget all the hardware companies you know today were once startups. Yes there's a current fashion to call companies that are basically small businesses "startups", but the term encompasses a far more profound class of enterprise.

And Apple itself was founded by an engineer (Woz) who first got his start at a big company, HP, which is celebrated as a hardware startup that grew.

I think the article and your comment do get to an important point, which is that Apple is big enough to have solid (and at the moment very successful) processes and infrastructure so that you only get experience in that matrix, and don't have to spend any time learning stuff outside your own area. You can, of course, and plenty of companies have come from Apple alums.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#43

Post by morgante »

gumby wrote: post #42
bomanbot wrote: post #19

Maybe another reason why Apple spawned comparatively few startups might be that some of the areas of expertise for Apple and their employees are harder to do in startup-sized companies; namely hardware engineering and mass manufacturing innovation. Apple does a lot of work in hardware and hardware manufacturing, both areas which are pretty capital-intensive and might not lead themselves as easily to the startup world…

> ...harder to do in startup-sized companies; namely hardware engineering and mass manufacturing innovation. Don't forget all the hardware companies you know today were once startups. Yes there's a current fashion to call companies that are basically small businesses "startups", but the term encompasses a far more profound class of enterprise. And Apple itself was founded by an engineer (Woz) who first got his start…

> Don't forget all the hardware companies you know today were once startups.

Unfortunately the winds of VC have changed a lot since then. Originally, VCs were willing and eager to invest millions in a promising innovation. Now they expect you to demonstrate traction before any large investments—which is infinitely harder with hardware startups.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#44

Post by CyberDildonics »

jgmmo wrote: post #26
Retric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue Pixar is a far more well known example outside of SV.

What are you talking about? Pixar didn't come from Apple. It came from folks who left Disney. Then Steve Jobs, as himself - not Apple - invested in Pixar.

This is not true. Pixar was originally Lucasfilm's computer graphics division lead by Ed Catmull. It was separated and sold to Steve Jobs.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#45

Post by gumby »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #18

(I really hope I don’t offend any Apple people saying this) My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.” It is not one of “Let’s conquer the world and become bazillionairres while we’re at it” — the Google culture — which is more pron…

> My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.”

I have a lot of friends and former colleagues who are at Apple and you're wrong about the 'go home to your family.' At least the friends I have (mostly nerds admittedly) are routinely in the 60-70 hours mark (have only one exception and he's worked at Apple since the 1980s). But they seem to like it.

> It is not one of “Let’s conquer the world and become bazillionairres while we’re at it” — the Google culture — which is more prone to eventually jumping ship and creating a startup.

This feels more like Google propaganda. My impression is that google folks seem to work a lot less (long hours its true, but less) than the Apple folks. Unlike Apple I only know nerds at google -- no marketing or business folks, so it could be different.

But of my google friends there are two groups: the übernerds who get to work on whatever they like (basically research) and they seem to have a lot of fun. A bunch of them are former colleagues from PARC and MIT, so they are doing the same kind of work we did years ago -- probably Microsoft research is the same.

The rest are doing product work of some sort of another and none of them seem particularly happy. A lot of them are on the market (I have hired a couple). It feels like Google has reached the microsoft phase: they have two real cash cows and are struggling to find more. Product managers have a lot of sway. They aren't really organized like an effective business.

Apple went through that mode and was within a few weeks of dying. Luckily they debugged themselves. My Apple friends, even those deep in the bowels of tools or drivers, amazingly are still super excited by the Apple products (I guess they would have given up by now if not).

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#46

Post by foobarqux »

gumby wrote: post #45
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #18

(I really hope I don’t offend any Apple people saying this) My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.” It is not one of “Let’s conquer the world and become bazillionairres while we’re at it” — the Google culture — which is more pron…

> My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.” I have a lot of friends and former colleagues who are at Apple and you're wrong about the 'go home to your family.' At least the friends I have (mostly nerds admittedly) are routinely in…

> Product managers have a lot of sway

Can you elaborate on what you mean to say here? Is it that PMs have a lot of influence compared to engineers?

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#47

Post by QuercusMax »

Apocryphon wrote: post #27
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #18

(I really hope I don’t offend any Apple people saying this) My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.” It is not one of “Let’s conquer the world and become bazillionairres while we’re at it” — the Google culture — which is more pron…

In some ways it can be thought of, "This company is the apotheosis of tech. You can get the full experience of a startup, with the stability of a giant corporation. Why would you want to go anywhere else?"

Which company any are you referring to, Apple or Google? I am starting at Google[x] in two weeks for exactly that reason.

I just spent the first 11 years of my career helping build a solid software organization (I was employee #14-ish, and I'm the most senior engineer whose job is primarily code-related) in Cleveland. It's now a well-oiled machine, but it's lost some of the spark and excitement of the first years I was there.

I decided to go with Google[x] because I'm looking for an organization where they are all about doing exciting and innovative things, with the stability and perks of a big corporation.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#48

Post by logicallee »

foobarqux wrote: post #46
gumby wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression, which comes from meeting a handful of Apple employees and several friends who took jobs and later left, is that the culture of Apple is that of “show up, do good work, cash the paycheck, and go home to your family.” I have a lot of friends and former colleagues who are at Apple and you're wrong about the 'go home to your family.' At least the friends I have (mostly nerds admittedly) are routinely in…

> Product managers have a lot of sway Can you elaborate on what you mean to say here? Is it that PMs have a lot of influence compared to engineers?

it's actually a funny statement given the definition of a product manager... it's like saying the CEO has a lot of sway over company policy. well, yeah.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#49

Post by agumonkey »

ianamartin wrote: post #4

Few compared to what? Microsoft? Google? Facebook? Oh, the article doesn't quantify what it means by "few." It just throws that idea out there for no reason and then pretends it's a thing.

Seems like these guys were more focused on buying rather than fork new businesses.

Re: Why Has Apple Spawned So Few Startups?

#50

Post by ubernostrum »

Illniyar wrote: post #5
ianamartin wrote: post #4

Few compared to what? Microsoft? Google? Facebook? Oh, the article doesn't quantify what it means by "few." It just throws that idea out there for no reason and then pretends it's a thing.

"Although firm figures are hard to come by, Ganesan estimates Apple's tally of startups is about 50 percent smaller than companies such as Google, Yahoo and PayPal. (Coincidentally, smart thermostat maker Nest, the most prominent startup hatched by Apple alums, was acquired by Google last year.) " They did. Wheather that data is accurate is another matter.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of ex-Apple startups eventually produce actual goods or services which people pay money for, vs. what percentage of ex-Google/Facebook/etc. startups are just buzzword-bingo crap piles that collapse within the year due to not actually having any product or service.
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