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Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

41–50 of 536 posts

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#41

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

In some parts of the UK, you mean :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23279868

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#43
post #23
post #18

There's a big difference between no tuition fees and "free" education. All this means is that the cost of education is passed on to all tax payers. Now this can be justified, there is utility in having an educated workforce and society. However when everyone is paying there is a need to have a decision about how many people need that education to provide the benefits everyone gets. The UK is seeing these problems wit…

They don't harm your credit rating, but... * You have to declare them when trying to get a mortgage (or any other loan) and so may reduce the amount you are leant. * If you go bankrupt - the loan does not go away. * Want to launch a funky startup? Now the graduates you want to work for you start demanding more money because a higher percentage now goes back to the Student Loan Company. I fought hard against the intro…

I remember when I started university the cap was £3k per year in England I believe. That was one of the reasons I chose to go to Scotland - no tuition fees for EU students (the fact that students from the rest of Britain have to pay is another matter...). However, the tuition fees were/are still lower in Scotland, around £1700 a year.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fees were really laughably small by U.S. standards, but fees, once implemented, seem to turn into a "slippery slope." So, as much as I like to mock my German students for complaining about having to pay €200 per semester, I think they were right to protest and "nip it in the bud". For instance, the University of California is formally tuition-free for in-state residents (edit: is this correct?), but over the last…

After one of Mark Edmundson's op ed pleas for students and parents to consider college as non-vocational, I had a look at the University of Virginia's tuition and fees from the late 1970s to recently. Comparing this against the minimum wage, I found that a student could have earned the 1978-1979 tuition and fees working a bit over eight weeks at the minimum wage. For the 2011-2012 school year, it was more than 38 wee…

Uva transitioned from a state school to a state charter school in 2005 reducing its state funding.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#45
post #36

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

"university students especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and this seems to be true everywhere. In this case it doesn't seem fair to tax people who are poor to pay for something that is mainly of benefit to the rich." That is the argument used to introduce the fees. Once they are introduced, poor person chance to get into university gets even lower. Expens…

This is the core of my question. Is there evidence that lowering fees does increase participation in university from poorer people and does this still hold true if the fee paying can be deferred?

More to the point, does it increase participation of poor people in the best universities and the best (as reflected in higher salaries) degree programmes?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#46
post #13

Whilst tuition fees in Ireland have not really risen - registration fees have gone from €200 to €3,000 over the 08-14'recession. In the UK fees have also risen. Finland and Denmark are free. I'm not that familiar with Southern or Eastern Europe. I think free third level institutions are important but I'm not opposed to the "free now tax later after certain pay threshold" education systems like Australia. Also [image]…

Technically not all university education is free in Hungary. If you don't get the required grades to get in but your grades are above a certain threshold you can pay tuition fees and go on the course.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#47
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is not zero sum and educated people on average make more. So, the net cost over time for subsidizing education is probably a small fraction of the sticker price. Or possibly it ends up paying for it's self.

But if they do make more, does it not make sense for the university grad to pay that cost after they have graduated?

Well they do, but indirectly, via higher income taxes (because higher pay).

The Dutch school system uses what you're suggesting actually; the government offers scholarships to all students, which is effectively a (low-interest) loan; if you finish your education, that loan or part thereof (depending on whether you took an extra loan, it's complicated) is forfeited, i.e. you don't have to pay it back. The remainder can be paid off in monthly terms, but the amount you have to pay off is determined based on how much money you earn.

If you are unable to get a good enough job to pay back that loan, it's forfeited after 15 or 25 years (I think it used to be 15 and they upped it recently).

It's kinda complicated though, and they had some heavy cuts in the system a while ago due to the economy - which IMHO is a huge shame, since a lot of students won't choose a higher education now, causing university studies to only be in reach of the rich once again.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#48
post #5

It's really crazy how the students reacted to this when the fees were introduced. They were very low compared to the US, less than 1000 euros for an entire year yet the students responded with mass protests and vandalism. On university also had it's master key(ring?) stolen and had to spend a lot of money to redo every lock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_University#Protests_a...

They weren't protesting 1000 euros, they were protesting fees of any kind. The leap from "no fees" to "fees" the biggest of all.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#49
post #11
post #4

I wish this happened in US. The fee part, not the paid to read part :)

Is price significant for public/state universities as well in US?

Yes, but Public Universities tend to be much cheaper than the other options.

The University I attended charges $6,000 per year in tuition, plus about another $1,000 in fees. Of course, you'd have to pay housing and food costs on top of that, which if you live on campus, ends up being about $10,000 a year, or less if you live off campus.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#50
post #13

Whilst tuition fees in Ireland have not really risen - registration fees have gone from €200 to €3,000 over the 08-14'recession. In the UK fees have also risen. Finland and Denmark are free. I'm not that familiar with Southern or Eastern Europe. I think free third level institutions are important but I'm not opposed to the "free now tax later after certain pay threshold" education systems like Australia. Also [image]…

In the University of Warsaw, Poland, the only compulsory fees are $30 for registration, and $35 to get your diploma nicely bound. Well, come to think of it, you can even skip the binding.
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