Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 180 posts

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#41

Post by maxerickson »

8154730 wrote: post #35
peterb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Even 3 decimal places wouldn't do justice to what they have done to us. Fuck those greedy bastards. If we were smart we would unionize ... err, sorry, I mean form a professional association to represent our interests. Like doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

So you think $324 billion dollars is appropriate? Wouldn't that essentially bankrupt all the companies involved? Who needs to worry about jobs when some of the biggest tech firms on the planet are wiped out! Not to mention that $324 billion spread across 64000 plaintiffs is $5 million each... You wouldn't be looking for that easy windfall, now would you?

Apple has ~$160 billion in cash reserves.

Google has ~$35 billion.

I'm not presenting that as an argument about the reasonableness of $300 billion, but it would likely not bankrupt them.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#42

Post by revelation »

8154730 wrote: post #35
peterb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Even 3 decimal places wouldn't do justice to what they have done to us. Fuck those greedy bastards. If we were smart we would unionize ... err, sorry, I mean form a professional association to represent our interests. Like doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

So you think $324 billion dollars is appropriate? Wouldn't that essentially bankrupt all the companies involved? Who needs to worry about jobs when some of the biggest tech firms on the planet are wiped out! Not to mention that $324 billion spread across 64000 plaintiffs is $5 million each... You wouldn't be looking for that easy windfall, now would you?

You go directly from "tech firms wiped out apocalypse" to "64000 plaintiffs [..] $5 million each" and don't notice the disconnect?

Frankly, that needs to happen, and not only when theres cause. We need a Netflix chaos monkey that breaks up big companies and redistributes their wealth to let creative destruction create something better.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#43

Post by Zigurd »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #16
troydavis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employer, I'd like to see it move right by two places. I'm not optimistic though.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of what the economic impact of these depressed wages has been. $3 Billion is probably not too far off the mark. Probably not $3 Billion directly to the programmers impacted, but definitely to the broader economy.

Across the industry, the number of employees affected is easily in the high hundreds of thousands, at a direct cost to them of tens of thousands of dollars per year. So billions to maybe low tens of billions is not an unreasonable range. And would that get trebled under California employment law?

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#44

Post by bjt »

justina1 wrote: post #4

I'm curious if this will have any impact on the practice other than companies getting better at not leaving a paper trail. If it doesn't, the only people this settlement will help is those at the named companies and not the trickle down effect it's had on the rest of the industry.

A case like this leaves institutional scar tissue. There will be new sections in HR policy manuals and training programs. Executives will be gun-shy about any conversations that even come close to those at the heart of this lawsuit. There will definitely be an effect.

For a while. As time passes and this case fades from memory I expect such collusion to eventually happen again.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#45

Post by candu »

smtddr wrote: post #19
justina1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the perception leans more towards 'uber rich tech execs conspired to pay their employees less' and not 'some of the best paid employees complain about how little they make'.

I deleted the comment you've replied to because of the rapid downvotes... but screw it... I'm putting it back here. Who needs karma anyway... To the rest of the public, we probably look like complaining oil or Walmart execs. While the rest of the general public is dealing with insane commutes and thankless/soul-crushing jobs, we got things like "The Social Network" movie, San Francisco gentrification issues, fancy ca…

Yes, it's true that the tech industry has bad optics right now, and that this probably looks like ridiculous entitlement to just about everyone else.

That's a shame, because collusion of this sort is illegal, full stop. If our industry "complains" about it, and wins, this precedent sends a very clear message to companies - including, and perhaps especially, those in other industries - that wage-fixing pacts of this sort are not tolerated. This may not completely stop other companies from attempting similar antics, but it certainly changes the cost-benefit analysis.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#46

Post by piyush_soni »

davidf18 wrote: post #27

This collusion depressed the price of engineering talent but so does H1B Visas. Need to work on the current battle as well...

... Or get ready to compete a little? ;) Like getting to a level which justifies your high price and differentiates you from that cheap labor from Asia?

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#47

Post by exstudent »

smtddr wrote: post #19
justina1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the perception leans more towards 'uber rich tech execs conspired to pay their employees less' and not 'some of the best paid employees complain about how little they make'.

I deleted the comment you've replied to because of the rapid downvotes... but screw it... I'm putting it back here. Who needs karma anyway... To the rest of the public, we probably look like complaining oil or Walmart execs. While the rest of the general public is dealing with insane commutes and thankless/soul-crushing jobs, we got things like "The Social Network" movie, San Francisco gentrification issues, fancy ca…

Sure you're drinking your VOSS but can you afford a home in SF? I would say it's a middle class aspiration to raise a family near your work. You'd be in for an "insane commute" if you had 3 kids and tried to work in the valley.

Engineer's pay pales in comparison to the value they create. That's an issue.

Average office drone X probably shouldn't even have a job so yeah, they shouldn't expect to get paid as much as a developer at Google.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#48

Post by x0x0 »

yonran wrote: post #23
gopher1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 64,000 plaintiffs. Source: http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/judge-rejects-comically-low...

By the way, Judge Lucy Koh estimated that fees would be $82885000, so each of the 64466 class members would have received $3750, not quite the “essentially zero” that Alex at TechCrunch claims in the article you link. Source: Judge Koh’s order http://www.scribd.com/doc/236255928/Apple-Google-Intel-Adobe...

and then pay taxes on it, so there goes ~40%, leaving $2250/person.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#49

Post by fleitz »

8154730 wrote: post #35
peterb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Even 3 decimal places wouldn't do justice to what they have done to us. Fuck those greedy bastards. If we were smart we would unionize ... err, sorry, I mean form a professional association to represent our interests. Like doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

So you think $324 billion dollars is appropriate? Wouldn't that essentially bankrupt all the companies involved? Who needs to worry about jobs when some of the biggest tech firms on the planet are wiped out! Not to mention that $324 billion spread across 64000 plaintiffs is $5 million each... You wouldn't be looking for that easy windfall, now would you?

The only real effect of bankruptcy would be that guys like Page and Brin would be worth $13 billion instead of $26.

Assuming that it would actually bankrupt them, how does bankruptcy cost jobs?

The cash goes to employees who will likely spend / re-invest in the startup economy, this will likely create more jobs as there are economies of scale in software companies.

The capital remains and would be sold to a new owner... since these companies are profitable the jobs remain and the company just has a lower bank account with new owners.

If you had the opportunity to buy Google/Apple/Adobe for 50 cents on the dollar, why would you fire everyone? It makes no sense, they are all extremely profitable companies.

Re: Judge rejects $324.5M settlement over Apple, Google hiring

#50

Post by suprgeek »

I had two concerns when this was made public:

that this was a laughably low amount considering the scope of the collusion and the time-scale over which it happened.

that it looks like a good deal to all the companies concerned on two fronts - 325 Million is a pittance compared to what Apple, Google or Adobe make in a month. and the perception of the non-tech folks that this is about the rich whining about not getting caviar rather than a real issue.

At least the first one is being addressed (somewhat). I hope the final settlement really makes them hurt financially so that it becomes one more item in the HR manual - "thou shalt not enter into illegal no-hire agreements even when pressured by an asshole" .

For the second issue there needs to be some effort put in towards communicating with the non-programmer public and educating them about why shit like this is a VERY bad idea no matter who does it or who is impacted.

Post reply on HN