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Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

nytimes.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#41

Has anyone read this book? What were your thoughts on it?

I read the book when it came out and found it thought-provoking enough to remember it 33 years later. If you're only familiar with part of North America, it's a good look at how different various regions are. It's probably too dated now for me to recommend it.

I found Garreau's other book "Edge City" to have more impact on my views in the long run, and I'd recommend it.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#42

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

Is there a way to replicate this work trivially? It would be interesting to redo it periodically and watch it change.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#43
post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

I thought it was a pun on the Saudi Arabia Empty Quarter which had the richest oil fields in the world. For example Ghawar field used to pump quite a bit of oil, although mostly water now. May have heard of Sheyba field, another important field.

I like Thesiger's travelogues about the empty quarter.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#44
post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

Already the case with Alberta, which is a major driving force in the Canadian economy, on track to surpass Quebec as the second largest provincial economy. Feels like a bit of a slight to lump it into an "Empty Quarter."

The effect is spanning too. As Alberta has sucked up the trades for the associated housing booms, pay has jumped in Saskatchewan, and now is jumping in Manitoba.

Ontario hasn't really seen it yet, but they've started advertising for skilled and unskilled trades here too.

As someone trying to start a business it's actually a great time. 5 years ago work was getting poached by fly-by-nighters who did shoddy work for cheap prices, but now it seems they've cleared out and headed west.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#45
post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

Mel Baker commented on the article and pointed out ...

>> If you read the original work he refers to the empty quarter because of population density

I do get your point on the "Extractotopia" name for the region, but personally would be more inclined to view it as ExtractoDystopia, ( google earth - fort mcmurray then you decide)

Of course after the oil and mining companies are done with it, the name "The Empty Quarter" could once again be the most applicable

Edit: spelling

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#46
post #22

Why "Empty Quarter"? What's the reason behind that name?

The population and population density in those areas are incredibly low. At least on the Canada side, the only two major cities in that area are Edmonton and Calgary, with a combined population of less than 2 million.

That's not true. Edmonton and Calgary have each been over a million for a while now. Alberta has also been the fastest growing province for probably a decade now.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#47
post #29

As Mexican I can give you an update about the Five Nations of Mexico: http://www.csuchico.edu/~sbrady/357fivenationsofmexico.pdf (1987) > "More than three decades after publication, two things amaze me: how little the boundaries have changed and how much chatter this idea is getting recently. " This is also true for the Mexican Nations, although the Mexican nations started a new experiment called "Democracy" in the 2…

Totally agree, I would like to extend your comment with my personal point of view about New Spain. This nation, in the past decade, has known how to get adventage of the IT industry, with a growing population of Engineers mostly "immigrants" from Mexamerica and Metromex (I´m one of those immigrants, I came to New Spain from Mexamerica for better oportunities as a Software developer).

Cities as Aguascalientes, Guadalajara and Queretaro are creating a big IT industry, with superior salaries and better work enviroments which are attracting developers from all around Mexico. International companies from the US, India and Mexico are investing a lot of resources there. Mexamerica is kind of falling apart, with some exceptions as Monterrey and Ensenada, let´s see if Mexamerica finally wakes up and starts doing something about it.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#48
post #43
post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

I thought it was a pun on the Saudi Arabia Empty Quarter which had the richest oil fields in the world. For example Ghawar field used to pump quite a bit of oil, although mostly water now. May have heard of Sheyba field, another important field. I like Thesiger's travelogues about the empty quarter.

If so, that's a brilliant pun. This book's been added to my reading list.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#49
post #45
post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

Mel Baker commented on the article and pointed out ... >> If you read the original work he refers to the empty quarter because of population density I do get your point on the "Extractotopia" name for the region, but personally would be more inclined to view it as ExtractoDystopia, ( google earth - fort mcmurray then you decide) Of course after the oil and mining companies are done with it, the name "The Empty Quarte…

If you look to my comment below, you'll see why I used "topia", which just means "place" from the Greek topos.

(u)topia = with the negative prefix means "No Place."

(Dys)topia = with the prefix δυσ (dus) from the Greek meaning "bad, hard, difficult" place.

Obviously extractive industries are harmful, as we can see in the recent shale oil and natural gas boom, but I thought the "extract" part of that would convey the message with the additional "dys."

But my favorite explanation of all in these etymological games is that its a deliberate pun on Rub' al Khali in Saudi Arabia, translated as "The Empty Quarter", which contains some of the most massive oil fields in the world.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#50

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

As an Ohioian who has relocated to Maine I would say that culturally New England (at least Portland and most of the other parts I've been to) is very VERY different culturally IMO. Much more liberal and, IMO, progressive than Ohio in general.

The article concludes with "Ultimately, that is the reason we are nine nations. When you’re from one, and you’re in it, you know you’re home." - as a Mainer myself, who has since relocated twice (to the Empty Quarter and MexAmerica), I cannot explain the feeling I experience just from stepping off the plane in Boston. (I realize that's not a very scientifically qualified statement, but in this case I'm okay with it).
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