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How to tell when someone is lying?

newyorker.com

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Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#41

Post by goldenkey »

arbitrage wrote: post #25
atacrawl wrote: post #21

Any time this topic comes up, I think immediately of the Louise Woodward case (aka the British Nanny Case): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case During the trial, much was made of Louise Woodward's odd demeanor on the stand; particularly, her propensity to awkwardly twist her mouth to stifle laughter during testimony. Many interpreted that as a sign of guilt, but my grandmother would laugh in a similar f…

Which is why it's a good thing that people are supposed to be judged based on facts, and not their popularity.

Popularity is different from oddness.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#42

Post by trhway »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #36
ZenPro wrote: post #15

As a former MI interrogator, this was part of my skillset. For the average layman looking to spot lies within a complex story there is an exceptionally simply method known as reverse chronological testing It works best for people you know are purposefully lying and you need a hook or a fallacy for proof. 1. Ask the person to recount their version of events. >> Oh so you went out with the girls at 7pm, then what happe…

I suspect that if you interrogated me about last night and I wasn't attempting to lie to you that I would still fail this test. I'm addle-brained, I don't get enough sleep, and I honestly don't remember if I got my daughter chocolate milk before or after diddling around on the computer. I might very well remember events when asked to repeat them in reverse order that I did not remember the first time through, leave d…

>I would still fail this test.

that is the point. If MI (or any other government force agency) got their paws on you, then you're guilty, and it is just a matter of routine effort to come up with what you're guilty of. The only choice you have is whether it happens a hard or an easy way... As they say in my old country - "for a given man, he always can be found guilty of something" (original - "byl by chelovek, a vina naydetsya" :)

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#43

Post by goldenkey »

dreamfactory2 wrote: post #5
vonnik wrote: post #3

The article's OK, but it doesn't actually deliver on the headline by illustrating the "tells" of a lie. This book is much more practical. http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Lie-Former-Officers-Deception/dp/1... One of the most interesting ideas is that no single tells indicates a lie, but clusters of them together are strong signals. A few would be: 1) pausing before you answer (lies take longer to compose than truths); 2) to…

These are also all traits of social awkwardness

Socially awkward people put as much effort into crafting their responses that a liar might. So the effect is in full force.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#45

Post by rasz_pl »

ZenPro wrote: post #18
mrcdima wrote: post #16

After reading all of Paul Ekman's books, watching all episodes of Lie to Me, and reading various other pop-science books, articles, posts, and so on, all on body language and lie detection, the only honest conclusion I could reach was that if you really want to know if someone's lying you better know the truth beforehand. Though there is some science to the method, it ultimately relies on very complex combinations of…

For someone who has not actually served in a role with training (like that which you describe) you are remarkably astute about the realities of catching liars. It takes considerable planning and man hours to uncover a truth from an individual intent to keep it hidden, often involving stress, deprivation of some sort and considerable psychological manipulation. Not even necessarily a lie, simply a truth they are obfus…

and in case of Police the one sure methond to beating all of the above is "I want my lawyer NOW".

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#46

Post by trhway »

asgard1024 wrote: post #11

Well, there is a simple method: 1. Get the statement from the person that might be lying. 2. Find out what the truth was. If the truth is different than the statement, the person was lying. Recently uncovered famous liars, with this method, include James Clapper and Vladimir Putin.

due to strong reality distortion fields, whether Putin lied or not depends on where you produce that conclusion - outside or inside of Russia

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#47

Post by rasz_pl »

vonnik wrote: post #3

The article's OK, but it doesn't actually deliver on the headline by illustrating the "tells" of a lie. This book is much more practical. http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Lie-Former-Officers-Deception/dp/1... One of the most interesting ideas is that no single tells indicates a lie, but clusters of them together are strong signals. A few would be: 1) pausing before you answer (lies take longer to compose than truths); 2) to…

You are starting with the assumption Police officer would be interested in the truth. Well, they are not, they are only interested in confessions/convictions.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#48

Post by mapleoin »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35
mapleoin wrote: post #32

Hardly anyone refrains from lying altogether, and some people report lying up to twelve times within that time span. I might open a conversation, for instance, by saying how nice it is to meet someone—when I’m really not at all happy about it. I might go on to say that I grew up in Boston—a lie, technically, since I really grew up in a small town about forty minutes outside the city. I could say that the person’s wor…

That's not lying. There's no intent to deceive - nobody is fooled. We know conventionally that he lives 'somewhere around Boston'; that he's offering an opening conversational gambit and not conveying emotional information; that we're confirming his right to enjoy something and not communicating a restaurant review. If we must call it lying, then we need a new word for when someone tells an intentional untruth with t…

I would argue that lying is not deceiving. At least not all the time. Lying also has the meaning of intentionally telling a falsehood.

And there is some deception involved, even if unintentional. Describing a restaurant you didn't like as what a great place simply reinforces the speaker's (monologuer's) impression, even though his interlocutor obviously believes it to be false. In the second part of the paragraph I quoted, the second person is basically just holding a mirror for the speaker in which he (the speaker) can admire and enlarge his own self, while the listener encourages and cheers him on.

They are both fooled.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#50

Post by mynameishere »

arbitrage wrote: post #25
atacrawl wrote: post #21

Any time this topic comes up, I think immediately of the Louise Woodward case (aka the British Nanny Case): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case During the trial, much was made of Louise Woodward's odd demeanor on the stand; particularly, her propensity to awkwardly twist her mouth to stifle laughter during testimony. Many interpreted that as a sign of guilt, but my grandmother would laugh in a similar f…

Which is why it's a good thing that people are supposed to be judged based on facts, and not their popularity.

The one time I was on a jury the judge specifically instructed the jurors to use our judgement in determining the credibility of anyone testifying. I don't think there's any way around it--everyone knows that perjury is a given on one side or the other.
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