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A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

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Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#41

Post by talmand »

walid wrote: post #33
jmnicolas wrote: post #20

I think the first commenter on the site said it all : "the systematic exploitation of private personal information by corporations and government is the modus operandi of a surveillance / police state. Already this is being abused for corporate espionage, political benefit, and a host of criminal enterprises. The manufactured pretext that all these erosions of privacy are ok because "we found bad guys" has been the s…

Although I'm very much miffed by the excessive surveillance of every country these days I don't find this to be the same. Companies and organizations do have the right to check up on people's activities in some manner. If your car wasn't paid for and it belongs to the bank now, I think the bank has the right to know where it is to repossess it. I think this is one of the ugly truths of reality rather than a matter of…

There's a difference between a bank finding out where the car is when you default and knowing where the car is at all times before you default.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#43

Post by belorn »

r0h1n wrote: post #6

I'm curious - how exactly would one refute the following argument put forth by data brokers and repo agents? > But Digital Recognition and other so-called “data brokers” who collect plate scans are fighting Hecht’s bill, arguing that repo agents are not invading privacy when they scan a ­license plate, which is available for all to see. The data brokers do not disclose the owner of the plates, they point out, though…

Its not about invading privacy, but rather about illegal handling of private and sensitive information.

The information about who is where and when is information that should be treated in similar way as credit cards numbers, medical information, and so on. Repo agents do not actually need to store this for their businesses, so their argument is easy refuted by simply denying their ability to profit by selling sensitive information about peoples private life.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#44

Post by talmand »

zacinbusiness wrote: post #2

This is quite interesting. On the one hand, I do understand that autoloans are very easy to default on. So there should be some method for loan companies to get these vehicles back. However, I also think that loan companies should more carefully screen their applicants. Of course, that would mean that loan companies make less money on loans and fees, and that they lose money on reselling cars that are already partial…

If the loans are so easy to default on, maybe they should rethink the current practices instead of considering a system that's so easily abused to invade people's privacy?

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#45

Post by josephlord »

walid wrote: post #33
jmnicolas wrote: post #20

I think the first commenter on the site said it all : "the systematic exploitation of private personal information by corporations and government is the modus operandi of a surveillance / police state. Already this is being abused for corporate espionage, political benefit, and a host of criminal enterprises. The manufactured pretext that all these erosions of privacy are ok because "we found bad guys" has been the s…

Although I'm very much miffed by the excessive surveillance of every country these days I don't find this to be the same. Companies and organizations do have the right to check up on people's activities in some manner. If your car wasn't paid for and it belongs to the bank now, I think the bank has the right to know where it is to repossess it. I think this is one of the ugly truths of reality rather than a matter of…

But if your car was paid for can they store the information about the time/location they saw it? Can they sell that information? What if there were enough of these devices out there that your information was updated every 10 minutes when you were on the road?

I wouldn't object to the scan but the storage of the data is a different matter.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#47

Post by gnerd »

diydsp wrote: post #26
evan_ wrote: post #3

Terrifying startup prospect: Imagine a small dashcam-like consumer device that was able to perform the same type of license plate recognition coupled with GPS location. A data collection company could provide these devices for free or at a low cost to anyone, and then pay drivers for every license plate scan their box sends in. Obvious downfall: someone will figure out how to spoof a GPS signal and randomly generate…

You're hinting at another major problem in this area, too: It's not just that ppl have the data and use it for amoral/unfair purposes. It's that people come to trust the data, believe in it and use it to make decisions. This is disastrous b/c there are huge margins of error. Errors are possible at all levels in systems like this, including sabotage and incrimination and your suggestion of junk data. E.g. in the motor…

For the EU, Data Protection Directive 95/46 (and the incoming changes from 2012), attempt to offer protection against automatic decisions.

In that document there is the concept of consent and that the consent can only be for the purpose the data was collected for. So should some clever company sell widgets at a loss to collect data and should that data then have an extra purpose in aggregate that does not fall into a protected area (like national security, government functions and all that) and the person did not consent to that reason, then you should (in theory) be able to bubble that argument up to the relevant courts for further inspection.

That's the theory, how well that works in practise... only time will tell.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#48

Post by rmc »

r0h1n wrote: post #6

I'm curious - how exactly would one refute the following argument put forth by data brokers and repo agents? > But Digital Recognition and other so-called “data brokers” who collect plate scans are fighting Hecht’s bill, arguing that repo agents are not invading privacy when they scan a ­license plate, which is available for all to see. The data brokers do not disclose the owner of the plates, they point out, though…

Just cause something is publically visible doesn't mean it's not private. Privacy is about control of the data, not whether the data is visible in public or inside private property.

By taking, storing and cataloging the data, they, not the car owner, now have some control over what happens to the data. Hence it's an invasion of privacy of the car owner.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#49

Post by rmc »

sbarre wrote: post #4

I think the article nails it on the head when it talks about technology getting ahead of social/legal controls. I'm sure when license plates were devised, no one thought ahead to the day a single unregulated for-profit company could automate the scanning and geolocation of many millions of vehicles a year.

There are legal controls in some places. The EU has had Data Protection law since 1995. There was a lot of history in Europe of organisations (usually countries) collecting massive amounts of data on people.

Re: A vast hidden surveillance network, powered by the repo industry

#50

Post by rmc »

weavie wrote: post #42
darksim905 wrote: post #9

Where exactly do they get their scanner tools from? I always thought these were police/3 letter agency only?

The article says they cost 10,000-17,000 which surprises me. Surely an iPhone would be enough technology for this?

In the same way an iphone can be good enough for your wedding photos?

These are high quality cameras, that have to work in large range of weather and lighting conditions. This cost might also include the software to OCR and store the details.

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