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At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

arstechnica.com

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Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#41

Post by cgriswald »

hawkharris wrote: post #36
cgriswald wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that, among actual shareholders, only 2.95% voted for the proposal, I do not think they are especially panicked about the future of the stock.

This proposal is only one manifestation of investors' concerns. It doesn't follow that because 3% voted for it, only 3% are concerned about the stock, which has been downgraded for the first time in 10 years.

Investors are not panicked. I argue that a panicked investor will either: I) Sell his stock immediately. or II) Demand any information available. Since (I) is not happening on a large scale (even when it dropped in January volume was a small portion of total shares), it follows that if investors are panicked about the stock, (II) must be occuring. However, (II) is not occuring because only 2.95% of shareholders voted for the proposal. This indicates that even if some portion of investors are panicked, it is at best only 2.95% of them. Thus it would be incorrect to say investors are panicked.

Now you have changed the investors' dispositions from "panicked" to "concerned". Assume that 100% of shareholders are "concerned" about the stock. It still follows that, at best, only 2.95% of shareholders are "concerned" about this particular information.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#42

Post by snom380 »

Narkov wrote: post #25
jpgvm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any scientist worth the oxygen they breathe all seem to be in agreement of 3 things. a) Climate change is real and happening. b) It's most definitely the impact of our utilisation of natural resources. c) That we can take measures to minimise it's effects.

[Citation Needed]

[Trivial Googling needed]

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#43

Post by flgb »

RivieraKid wrote: post #34

I'm really sceptical and suspicious to the type of environmental policies that Apple and other companies do. The effect on global warming is near zero, possibly even negative. The decision to use green energy decreases the price of non-green energy, so other companies will buy more of it. I really don't like how unsystematic and non-transparent this approach is. A clean solution would be a tax on non-green energy. It…

Apple isn't in a position to implement new taxes. Where the Government isn't showing leadership, it's beholden on corporations to show the way where they can.

By implementing these policies Apple can show leadership and influence their peers and support the clean energy industry. This is the right thing to do.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#44

Post by flgb »

ueqirat wrote: post #3

it is possible to disagree with apple's investment in "sustainability" and not be a climate change denier

Yes, but a lot of people who like to put the word sustainability in scare quotes are against action on climate change. And a lot of people who preface mentions of the phrase climate change with "so called" are deniers.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#45

Post by yrro »

downandout wrote: post #29
jjoonathan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this group [does not deny] that climate change is occurring But their press release says > Apple is wasting untold amounts of shareholder money to combat so-called climate change. which sounds like denial to me. Would you prefer to call them "Climate Change Skeptics," the term coined by radical conservatives to attempt to paint themselves as not crazy and anti-scientific? Everyone plays the "name yourself according…

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until G.W. Bush's campaign came up with the new name to make it sound like a less alarming phenomenon.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#46

Post by gus_massa »

nl wrote: post #33
downandout wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Climate change" used to be "global warming" until that term became so strongly associated with extremists that it instantly damaged the credibility of anyone that used it. "Climate Change Skeptics" communicates the same thing as "deniers". You are missing the point. Most people agree that climate change (aka global warming) is occurring. The argument is over whether we can cause it or stop it.

Global warming dropped from use because it is inaccurate (or more precicly is too broad to be useful). While the global temperature is increasing, there are places that see a decrease. Usually this is due to either changing rainfall patterns (ie, former deserts that now get rain) or changes in ocean currents (eg the potential movement in the current that keeps the UK warm). Climate change is more accurate for people…

> Global warming dropped from use because it is inaccurate (or more precicly is too broad to be useful).

Well, "Climate change" is even broader than "Global warming".

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#47

Post by specialist »

Daishiman wrote: post #39
RivieraKid wrote: post #34

I'm really sceptical and suspicious to the type of environmental policies that Apple and other companies do. The effect on global warming is near zero, possibly even negative. The decision to use green energy decreases the price of non-green energy, so other companies will buy more of it. I really don't like how unsystematic and non-transparent this approach is. A clean solution would be a tax on non-green energy. It…

And the use of green energy goes towards investment in green energies that will lower the price of it, with the difference that the supply of nonrenewables is limited, whereas the others are not.

It's also risk mitigation. Supplying your own electricity from solar farms is a pretty good way to avoid price volatility.

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#48

Post by [deleted] »

codeka wrote: post #12
downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

No, NCPPR categorically are crazy and stupid. No need to coin terms to paint them as such when their own words do a perfectly good job of it on their own.

[deleted]

Re: At Apple shareholder’s meeting, Tim Cook tells off climate change deniers

#49

Post by mrtron »

downandout wrote: post #8

"Climate Change Denier" is a term coined by radical environmentalists in an attempt to paint their opponents as crazy and stupid. Most rational people don't deny that climate change is occurring. Many people simply side with scientists that have examined the facts and determined that human attempts at trying to control climate change are about as effective as Indian rain dances. That said, Tim Cook's response was cor…

Attempts to control climate change?

Most environmentalists aim to reduce known human impacts on climate change. This is actually closer to reducing human control on climate change than doing nothing.

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