Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 216 posts

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#41

Post by da02 »

davepage wrote: post #30
thaumasiotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who lives in China... The firewall won't bother you (assuming you wish to get around it); it's there for the masses. Any idiot with a US citizenship can get a tourist visa, lasting a year and having only the requirement "visit Hong Kong (or any other non-China location) every three months" (I was unambitious, and got a two-month one). Someone of my acquaintance says he paid a visa-help company $10…

$1000! Crazy laowai. As a data point, my current F visa is 2 years, multi-entry, 90 days and cost the nominal fee plus about $100 for the visa company to drop it off at the consulate. Apparently, the F visa has been re-purposed and there is a new M business visa. Any practical experience with that? [of course, China habitually hassles journalists (Bloomberg) over visas]

What's the name (or link) of the visa company?

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#42

Post by knappe »

Having just come back, this week, from a three weeklong trip visiting a large portion of the country (Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, Guilin, Shanghai, Nanjing and Shijiazjuang [along with a number of minor cities]) the pollution was by far the worse in Shijiazjuang, though not on the level seen in Shanghai this week. Shanghai was polluted, but the wind was generally blowing most of the pollution away from the city.

My impression was that most people have a rather nonchalant attitude towards the pollution. They know it is bad, but don't really know what to do about it. This includes my American brother who has been living in Shijiazjuang for the last year. Whenever the topic of pollution came up, he didn't really seem to have any strong feelings about the pollution, either way and explained that seems to be most people's attitude too.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#43

Post by petermcd »

jkimmel wrote: post #12

Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…

Fair question.

My impression here in Beijing is that people are highly dissatisfied with the pollution situation. They don't want lung cancer and they don't want their kids breathing this crap.

That being said, the government is taking steps to address the issue. Specifically, due to an outcry on Weibo last year about having to get PM2.5 numbers from the US embassy's twitter feed and iPhone app (twitter is blocked, but screenshots of the iPhone app were pasted on weibo), the government here has started reporting pollution numbers in major cities around the country. So there's reporting now.

Second, they've forced the state-owned oil companies to retool to start outputting cleaner gasoline, moved big polluting industry out of the cities (steel plants, etc.), closed down barbecue pits, ended the sale of some of the more polluting coal briquettes that used to be common, and are trying to get construction sites to keep the dust down.

All of those steps are helping, but not reversing the trend (so far as I can tell or have heard). There is a push to move from coal-burning power plants to gas-powered power plants, but they need to find the gas (via fracking or other means).

Is there an outcry? There are certainly people posting about the pollution on Weibo, which is China's twitter. There are also plenty of people emigrating to the US, if they can afford it (voting with their feet, even if they can't vote here). But I think for people to do more than that, they'd need to see the government just not giving a damn. So perhaps the attitude is 'wait and see'?

Hope this helps.

By the way, one of my Beijing buddies said of the Shanghai smog: "In Beijing, we call this Tuesday."

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#44

Post by [deleted] »

Sharlin wrote: post #16

I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

[deleted]

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#46

Post by thaumasiotes »

davepage wrote: post #30
thaumasiotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who lives in China... The firewall won't bother you (assuming you wish to get around it); it's there for the masses. Any idiot with a US citizenship can get a tourist visa, lasting a year and having only the requirement "visit Hong Kong (or any other non-China location) every three months" (I was unambitious, and got a two-month one). Someone of my acquaintance says he paid a visa-help company $10…

$1000! Crazy laowai. As a data point, my current F visa is 2 years, multi-entry, 90 days and cost the nominal fee plus about $100 for the visa company to drop it off at the consulate. Apparently, the F visa has been re-purposed and there is a new M business visa. Any practical experience with that? [of course, China habitually hassles journalists (Bloomberg) over visas]

I only know what he told me, which is that his visa allows him to enter and leave as he pleases, but, unlike my 60-day multi-entry, does not need to be renewed (much like a residence permit). $1000 isn't an unreasonable price for not having to leave every few months.

I have no knowledge of M visas; I just use Ls.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#49

Post by thaumasiotes »

davepage wrote: post #24
matthewrudy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and the price of international schools for your kids, right?

If cost is a primary concern, the kids can go to local school (just like Chinese kids who come to the US). The expat continuum goes from 'bubble' to 'going native'. Bubble is most expensive. Might as well stay home, no?

They can? Even local chinese kids without 户口 can't go to local schools, to hear them tell it. That was one of the primary reasons students came to the school where I worked in 2010-11.
Post reply on HN