Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

blog.tapdaq.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#41

Post by coldtea »

dublinben wrote: post #40
coldtea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "independent" mean in this context? She released stuff with XL Recordings (a label that had multi-million selling artists even back in the nineties) and then signed with Columbia. Independent used to be somebody in a small label, like 4AD. Nowadays, it's somebody releasing his songs himself or such. Adele hasn't qualified as such for over 5 years...

XL Recordings is a true independent label. It is not owned by a major record label, even indirectly. That's the definition of independent that is used within the music business. Just because they're incredibly successful, doesn't make them not an independent label. Changing the definition of "indie" to exclude XL makes the claim that 'indies aren't successful' a simple tautology.

>Just because they're incredibly successful, doesn't make them not an independent label. Changing the definition of "indie" to exclude XL makes the claim that 'indies aren't successful' a simple tautology.

Perhaps, but has the benefit that it keeps the definition of "indie" as "not a big marketing and sales behemoth" intact.

And that's more to the essense of being "independent" than "doesn't belong to a major record label".

If we're to accept incredibly succesful, large selling artists, big marketing as "independent", then what does distinguish major and indie record labels? Simply that it's not a conglomerate?

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#42

Post by darkchasma »

mkaziz wrote: post #26
darkchasma wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony that the top developers started as indie developers for the most part, and simply grew their business with successful products seems to be lost on the author.

Assuming that that's true (idk if it is), they were there first, when offerings were more limited and the big wigs hadn't gotten in. My little hypothetical appstore game isn't going to compete with offerings like Angry Birds into which probably many man-years have gone in already. OP's point is that it's harder to get in NOW.

When is this ever not the case? It's harder to own land now than it was when the government was giving it away for free. That in no way makes it impossible to own land, and no one says stupid things like "Why people can't win the land grab in America".

Build a good product, it will sell. Build an innovative product that scratches the itch of millions and you get onto the top 5 list.

What I see far too often is developers passing off a derivative or poorly executed idea, and complaining that the marketplace is the problem. It's not.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#43

Post by AndrewKemendo »

cheesylard wrote: post #12
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #4

>Overall, King.com spends over $350k (Source: King.com) a day on mobile ads and it can be assumed that the other 4 developers have ad budgets within this range. I have said this other places, but I will repeat it here. Kudos to them for finding (or creating) a successful niche with high demand. I find it sad though that sooo much money is going to marketing games that don't push technology further, or really fundamen…

Blame the piracy laws. These games are, of course, inherently worthless but the current policies are propping them up when innovation should be in other places.

Unfortunately "worth" in any functional sense is defined by the demand for it, so in that sense these are immensely valuable. That is my lament, that something with so little functional utility (outside of a dopamine reward loop) has captured so much voluntary worth.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#44

Post by cheesylard »

crusso wrote: post #17
cheesylard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame the piracy laws. These games are, of course, inherently worthless but the current policies are propping them up when innovation should be in other places.

That makes no sense. If they were inherently worthless then no one would pay to play them. You mistakenly conflate cost to produce with value to consumers. Obviously the content has value to consumers.

People only pay for them because they don't have any other choice. If it was legal to sponsor an Android fork that had a pirate version of the Play Store, I'm sure all of the hardware manufacturers would be shipping it with their phones.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#45

Post by dublinben »

coldtea wrote: post #41
dublinben wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XL Recordings is a true independent label. It is not owned by a major record label, even indirectly. That's the definition of independent that is used within the music business. Just because they're incredibly successful, doesn't make them not an independent label. Changing the definition of "indie" to exclude XL makes the claim that 'indies aren't successful' a simple tautology.

> Just because they're incredibly successful, doesn't make them not an independent label. Changing the definition of "indie" to exclude XL makes the claim that 'indies aren't successful' a simple tautology. Perhaps, but has the benefit that it keeps the definition of "indie" as "not a big marketing and sales behemoth" intact. And that's more to the essense of being "independent" than "doesn't belong to a major record…

Yes, that's always been the definition of independent record labels, nothing more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_record_label

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#46

Post by mkaziz »

darkchasma wrote: post #42
mkaziz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that that's true (idk if it is), they were there first, when offerings were more limited and the big wigs hadn't gotten in. My little hypothetical appstore game isn't going to compete with offerings like Angry Birds into which probably many man-years have gone in already. OP's point is that it's harder to get in NOW.

When is this ever not the case? It's harder to own land now than it was when the government was giving it away for free. That in no way makes it impossible to own land, and no one says stupid things like "Why people can't win the land grab in America". Build a good product, it will sell. Build an innovative product that scratches the itch of millions and you get onto the top 5 list. What I see far too often is develo…

I don't see why you're looking at it as an either-or case. I'm sure there are plenty of poorly executed ideas in the marketplace, but that doesn't invalidate my point. To use your land analogy, it's now just getting more and more expensive to buy land in America - just as it's getting more and more expensive (in terms of cost and effort) to put out an application that meets the market's increasingly higher standards.

I'm not saying something is WRONG with the market, I'm making an observation about the state of the market.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#47

Post by crusso »

_rmp_ wrote: post #25
crusso wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, King.Com is pretty aggressive. The funny thing with Candy Crush is that it's a free app. The only thing that costs money is if you want to "cheat" to get extra turns and goodies to help you get past levels. Totally defeats the purpose of playing a puzzle game, as far as I'm concerned, but they make tons of money off those who are fine with dishing out cash to see that next level sooner.

the funny thing with Candy Crush is that it looks like a free app. If you want to keep advancing levels you will eventually need to pay as the difficulty will make it near impossible to win without paying...

I'm up to level 197, haven't paid a dime.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#48

Post by crusso »

cheesylard wrote: post #44
crusso wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. If they were inherently worthless then no one would pay to play them. You mistakenly conflate cost to produce with value to consumers. Obviously the content has value to consumers.

People only pay for them because they don't have any other choice. If it was legal to sponsor an Android fork that had a pirate version of the Play Store, I'm sure all of the hardware manufacturers would be shipping it with their phones.

That's irrelevant. You said that the games were "inherently worthless".

You're attempting to twist the language so words don't mean what most people think they mean and I'm not buying it.

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#49

Post by throwwit »

melling wrote: post #13

Any advice on cheap marketing, or simply how to get the word out? I've tried emailing a few blogs to get reviews, and now I'm trying to use Twitter (@h4labs). I'm building iOS language learning software. The apps could still use work but I think I'm approaching "useful." The one interesting observation that I have is that since I wasn't making many sales at $1.99, I raised my price on Monday to $2.99. As of this morn…

An invitation for brutal feedback is always a good start!... Graphics -If you update to ios7 customize look, otherwise might be bland completely. I suggest just using the skeumorphic textures to make up for design instead (bad but most viable option). -Needs Better Art / Common Colors (maybe same as language icon) -Too many different apps. It's like dividing & conquering own efforts to make it up the charts. -Good luck... immense competition

Re: Why indie developers can't win on the App Store

#50

Post by darkchasma »

mkaziz wrote: post #46
darkchasma wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is this ever not the case? It's harder to own land now than it was when the government was giving it away for free. That in no way makes it impossible to own land, and no one says stupid things like "Why people can't win the land grab in America". Build a good product, it will sell. Build an innovative product that scratches the itch of millions and you get onto the top 5 list. What I see far too often is develo…

I don't see why you're looking at it as an either-or case. I'm sure there are plenty of poorly executed ideas in the marketplace, but that doesn't invalidate my point. To use your land analogy, it's now just getting more and more expensive to buy land in America - just as it's getting more and more expensive (in terms of cost and effort) to put out an application that meets the market's increasingly higher standards.…

There are a million apps, and only 5 people that can 'win' the app store at any time. To say it's more difficult to rocket to the top is an inane and obvious observation. It has nothing to do with indie development, it's about the fact that there are 5 top spots for one million apps. By definition, 99.999995% aren't going to win, regardless of whether they are indie or not.
Post reply on HN