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Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

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Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#41

Post by bob13579 »

cstross wrote: post #29
qwanzi77 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incumbent manufacturers have to go through dealers. Allowing Tesla to bypass dealers wouldn't be fair to other car manufacturers. "Tesla repay a big federal loan a few weeks ago, many years before they had to?" Why does this matter? They were given a large loan. That large loan gave them a large runway to have one profitable quarter, which allowed them to pay back the loan by issuing shares and bonds. Another car man…

Why should incumbent manufacturers have to go through dealers? Why can't they sell direct to the end customers via the internet? Do the incantations "disintermediate all supply chains" and "disrupt all mature industries" suddenly lose all their magical HN mojo when confronted with the Kryptonite of the car industry?

This is a different argument altogether. The original argument was about Tesla playing on an unfair playing field, which is demonstrably false. Other car manufacturers have to go through the same dealer network. Why should Tesla be allowed to sell directly when other car manufacturers can't?

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#43

Post by bob13579 »

hb1742 wrote: post #30
qwanzi77 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. And why should it matter? Tesla got the loan. Others didn't. How is that fair?

To rephrase this: Did all students get A on the exam? Did all even try to learn to get good grade? No. And why should it matter. Ones who did put some effort into learning got the loan. Others didn't. OMG HOW IS THAT FAIR? Yup, unfair indeed, lol.

How exactly did Tesla earn an "A" up to that point? Every small electric car manufacturer was losing money left and right. Two smaller startups got the loan (Tesla and Fisker) to survive, while the others didn't (Bright Automotive, etc.). The ones that didn't get the loans went out of business. The one that got the other $500 million loan went out of business (Fisker). Only Tesla survived by having one tiny profitable quarter (which was a low single digit profitable quarter where they sold 3000 cars to rich people).

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#44

Post by lazyjones »

qwanzi77 wrote: post #10
mtgx wrote: post #5

He gets like that sometimes, and you can see he really cares about the products he's making and the change he's trying to make in the world. So sometimes he seems deeply affected that others are so much against him, especially when they aren't playing fair. He became a bit emotional in another interview where he said that Neil Armstrong was opposed to the idea of having SpaceX making commercial rockets (or any other…

"he seems deeply affected that others are so much against him, especially when they aren't playing fair" How exactly is Tesla playing fair? Did all car manufacturers receive a $500 million loan to build electric cars or something?

> Did all car manufacturers receive a $500 million loan to build electric cars or something?

Did any other manufacturer build a car like the Tesla Roadster? Any medium to large manufacturer could have done that, noone did. So as a government I'd be wary about the true intentions of those industry players who didn't want to touch electric cars in the past decades, too.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#45

Post by zalew »

rubinelli wrote: post #35
olalonde wrote: post #23

I had no idea there was actually a written law that prevented auto manufacturers to sell directly to consumers. What is this law supposed to achieve exactly?

Officially, to make sure customers have a dealership close by where they can have their cars properly serviced without delays or long trips. In practice, to protect dealers with fat margins and terrible commercial practices.

dealers have fat margins in the US? I'd be suprised. around here they are capped by the manufacturers and raised only after achieving goals that are impossible for newcommers to meet. the money is made on service, without that you'd basically sink cash into a very expensive gallery. setting up a dealership is tough, very expensive and very risky.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#46

Post by confluence »

He does that. Musk almost lost it in his 60 minutes interview when asked why Neil Armstrong (a hero of his) was actively against what both he and SpaceX stood for.

Personally, if I were told on national TV that my personal hero hated what I was doing, I'd be pretty negatively affected as well.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#48

Post by cstross »

bob13579 wrote: post #41
cstross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should incumbent manufacturers have to go through dealers? Why can't they sell direct to the end customers via the internet? Do the incantations "disintermediate all supply chains" and "disrupt all mature industries" suddenly lose all their magical HN mojo when confronted with the Kryptonite of the car industry?

This is a different argument altogether. The original argument was about Tesla playing on an unfair playing field, which is demonstrably false. Other car manufacturers have to go through the same dealer network. Why should Tesla be allowed to sell directly when other car manufacturers can't?

What is this word "allow"?

Who forces car manufacturers to go through a dealer network? Or rather, who forbids them from selling direct to the public? Doesn't that constitute unfair restraint on trade?

I'm serious here. (Non-American speaking.) Is there some law that mandates that cars can only/must be sold through dealers?

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#49

Post by norswap »

qwanzi77 wrote: post #32
shrikant wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they ask, and/or meet the requirements? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Vehicles_Ma...

Many asked. Only few were given those loans. Why not give the money to research universities instead? Wouldn't that be a lot more fair? We could all exploit the research, instead of just a few well-connected billionaires and corporations with lots of resources.

I think the aim was to make electric cars a practical reality, and somehow I don't see academia do that.

Re: Minute 53, very emotional moment by Elon Musk

#50

Post by flinty »

cstross wrote: post #48
bob13579 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a different argument altogether. The original argument was about Tesla playing on an unfair playing field, which is demonstrably false. Other car manufacturers have to go through the same dealer network. Why should Tesla be allowed to sell directly when other car manufacturers can't?

What is this word "allow"? Who forces car manufacturers to go through a dealer network? Or rather, who forbids them from selling direct to the public? Doesn't that constitute unfair restraint on trade? I'm serious here. (Non-American speaking.) Is there some law that mandates that cars can only/must be sold through dealers?

There literally is a law in every state that prevents direct sales. Check out this planet money podcast about this very topic http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...
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