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U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#41

Post by guelo »

AJ007 wrote: post #8

Its sad that high profile news organizations in the United States now need to use secure communication channels out of fear of being harassed by their own government.

As far as we know the government only obtained records of the timestamps and endpoints of the communication, not the content. Encryption wouldn't help there, you need something like Tor. But the problem is that in order to setup a comm channel over Tor you would have to communicate over an insecure channel to set it up. Any idea of what could be the solution for a news org?

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#42

Post by rayiner »

sneak wrote: post #16
hga wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Second amendment's been gone for a while. " Not even close. True if you live in one of 10 very bad states, two of which oddly are shall issue concealed carry ones that just went very bad (Connecticut and Colorado), but continuing that concealed carry theme, i.e. the "bear" in "the right to keep and bear arms" (RKBA), there's been a nationwide sweep of shall issue, starting in Florida in 1987 and ending with Iowa an…

I frequent NYC, Chicago, and SF. Try again. What I'm pointing out is that when you have people like Bloomberg and Emanuel individually violating double-digit millions of individuals' constitutional rights on their whims, you don't have a free society. Whether it's RKBA this month or the right to peaceably assemble during a political convention in an election year, they get to pick and choose which rights you are allo…

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#43

Post by hga »

vacri wrote: post #40
hga wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always Switzerland, although I expect it to go to hell WRT to guns in due course, they've been moving in that direction for some time.

Swiss ownership of guns is nothing like US ownership. 'guns per capita' doesn't illuminate anything about the significant cultural differences.

Errrm, isn't it the case that the default is that a Swiss citizen can own guns?

Which is the default for 2/3rds of the US population, and includes permanent resident aliens.

I know there are significant cultural differences, but when you come down to it, does the government trust the people or not? This is the touchstone for that question.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#44

Post by MartinCron »

rayiner wrote: post #42
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequent NYC, Chicago, and SF. Try again. What I'm pointing out is that when you have people like Bloomberg and Emanuel individually violating double-digit millions of individuals' constitutional rights on their whims, you don't have a free society. Whether it's RKBA this month or the right to peaceably assemble during a political convention in an election year, they get to pick and choose which rights you are allo…

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

People's love for states rights is a direct response to their love for what the states choose to do with those rights.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#45

Post by hga »

rayiner wrote: post #42
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequent NYC, Chicago, and SF. Try again. What I'm pointing out is that when you have people like Bloomberg and Emanuel individually violating double-digit millions of individuals' constitutional rights on their whims, you don't have a free society. Whether it's RKBA this month or the right to peaceably assemble during a political convention in an election year, they get to pick and choose which rights you are allo…

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

Or, say, slavery? Another enumerated (anti-)right in the Constitution.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#46

Post by gyardley »

rayiner wrote: post #42
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequent NYC, Chicago, and SF. Try again. What I'm pointing out is that when you have people like Bloomberg and Emanuel individually violating double-digit millions of individuals' constitutional rights on their whims, you don't have a free society. Whether it's RKBA this month or the right to peaceably assemble during a political convention in an election year, they get to pick and choose which rights you are allo…

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

Because we're not talking about something like your ability to smoke weed here - the right to bear arms is a constitutional one.

You might as well ask 'why do people love states rights except when it comes to free speech?' Same thing in my book.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#47

Post by rayiner »

gyardley wrote: post #46
rayiner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

Because we're not talking about something like your ability to smoke weed here - the right to bear arms is a constitutional one. You might as well ask 'why do people love states rights except when it comes to free speech?' Same thing in my book.

Fun fact: none of the Bill of Rights originally applied to the states. In 1795, Illinois, California, and New York could have banned all guns totally Constitutionally. It wasn't until the 1900's that the Bill of Rights was interpreted to apply to the states via the 14th amendment.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#48

Post by dkl »

lolcraft wrote: post #38
sneak wrote: post #5

Second amendment's been gone for a while. Fifth and fourteenth haven't been seen in a minute, either. Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) How much of the first needs to be gone until it's enough to recognize that the USA is no longer a free society? How many whistleblowers, security researchers, and cryptographers need to be thrown in prison on bullshit trumped-up charges? How many hunger-striking politi…

> Peaceable assembly's overrated anyway. (RNC '04) You mean the assembly whose Wikipedia page has... ? "Expected security expenditures reached $70 million, $50 million of which was funded by the federal government." "The NYPD infiltrated and compiled dossiers on protest groups (most of whom were doing nothing illegal), leading to over 1,800 arrests and subsequent fingerprinting." "Over 1800 individuals were arrested…

I think they were talking about free speech zones at the RNC in '04.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#49

Post by mpyne »

tptacek wrote: post #30
mpyne wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's allowable. In fact I thought last decade some reporter went to prison for years for "contempt of court" for refusing to comply with a valid subpoena (but I forget the name).

Judith Miller was jailed for refusing to out Bush administration sources who outed Valerie Plame's status as a covert operative as political retribution.

Yes, that's the one, thanks.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#50

Post by mpyne »

hga wrote: post #45
rayiner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people love states rights except when it comes to gun laws?

Or, say, slavery? Another enumerated (anti-)right in the Constitution.

Except that one is no longer a "right", which you can't say about the 10th Amendment.
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