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I Stand With Trolls

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Re: I Stand With Trolls

#41

Post by ben0x539 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #39
smirksirlot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something that needs to be said about political beliefs that stomp on the very fiber of my being. Sure. I would work with these people and execute what I need to do. But knowing what they believe in and the extent of which they would act to remove/restrict rights that I should have ultimately will prevent me from wanting to get to know them, to interact with them beyond a strictly professional capacity. From…

Does it make a difference what the position of the person who's views you disagree with holds? I can sort of understand saying "I don't want to work to make our CEO richer because he will spend the money promoting causes I hate". But what about co-workers or subordinates? Would you be disturbed because the guy who cleans the floor holds controversial views? Also bear in mind that employees will leave and be replaced…

> he will spend the money promoting causes I hate

> you're never going to get people who don't disagree on some divisive issue

I'm not sure you appreciate how deeply these issues affect the people they're about. It's not just talking points for everybody.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#42

Post by Supermighty »

smirksirlot wrote: post #32
lotharbot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It’s about the message they give to potential hires: you’ll be working with these people on a daily basis." At any company larger than about 3 employees, you'll be working with at least some people who have opinions/ideas/beliefs you find disagreeable or even disgusting -- and, conversely, some of your coworkers will think the same of you. IMO the most important message to give to potential hires is "we won't put…

There's something that needs to be said about political beliefs that stomp on the very fiber of my being. Sure. I would work with these people and execute what I need to do. But knowing what they believe in and the extent of which they would act to remove/restrict rights that I should have ultimately will prevent me from wanting to get to know them, to interact with them beyond a strictly professional capacity. From…

> will prevent me from wanting to get to know them, to interact with them beyond a strictly professional capacity.

And you have thus wasted an opportunity to educate them in the error of their ways.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#43

Post by jiggy2011 »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #36
smirksirlot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something that needs to be said about political beliefs that stomp on the very fiber of my being. Sure. I would work with these people and execute what I need to do. But knowing what they believe in and the extent of which they would act to remove/restrict rights that I should have ultimately will prevent me from wanting to get to know them, to interact with them beyond a strictly professional capacity. From…

From my experience of working in both large corporations and small start up companies, it's generally frowned upon to even discuss political matters no matter what side of the isle you sit on. The very reasons you cite is the main reason this is something you simply keep to yourself, period. Likewise, most companies I've worked for don't engage in overtly political events so they don't self select out any candidates…

I think that is an aspect of the problem outlined in the article. It's easy enough to keep the discourse at work fairly light when it comes to political issues. But in a world where everyone follows each other on social media it becomes harder to separate. So you find out that the nice pleasant guy you sit next to at lunch has "liked" a ton of neo-nazi groups.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#44

Post by ben0x539 »

sodomizer wrote: post #15
zacharyvoase wrote: post #10

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still: I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easie…

I think it's a terrible idea to judge other people's political decisions until you've walked a mile in their shoes. If you are a professional, you should be ready to work with anyone, not just the people who agree with you. Your view is not objectively correct. To insist otherwise is fascism.

I think it's not fascism to refuse to work with/for people whose polics are aimed at concretely restricting your civil liberties, in a way that might have affected your day-to-day life for the rest of your life.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#45

Post by prg318 »

1337biz wrote: post #38

Anonymous and Wikileaks might get ahold of Google’s entire email database and start publishing stuff. Speaking of which ... is there any tool to swipe clean an Gmail inbox? Due to to the recent changes I finally got ready to switch over to my old pop3s. I plan on slowly fading out my Gmal account, so I would start by deleting all the past mails, etc. Any recommended way to do this?

I would be honestly surprised if deleting messages from your gmail account actually removed them permanently from Google's databases.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#46

Post by kevinpet »

zacharyvoase wrote: post #10

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still: I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easie…

I'm pretty sure that you are someone I would not want to work with, because while I may disagree with Eich politically, I find your inability to separate the personal and professional spheres much more alarming. I'm not referring to your personal dislike for working with someone who supported prop 8, I'm referring to your internalizing and remembering that one particular non-politician supported it, and taking the time to post about it to make sure that people associate him with his political views, rather than his professional and public persona.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#47

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

onemorepassword wrote: post #34
michaelochurch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 8 was disgusting, but I would have more reservations about working for a company that fired someone over his political beliefs, than at one that happened to have a conservative CTO. If I work for a company that takes a cavalier approach to firing, I'm putting my career at risk. But as long as there aren't other character issues, I don't think a conservative CTO is damning. They might not even know; it's not real…

Maybe it's cultural context, but in my book homophobia has nothing to do with legitimate political beliefs. Being conservative has nothing at all to do with bigotry. Promoting hatred and discrimination towards any group that is part of your (potential) employees and their friends and families would be good reason to fire someone as far as I'm concerned.

There's no maybe about it, to me. Cultural context is always going to define what a legitimate political belief is. Unless you believe that there is an objective definition of good and evil that exists outside human culture.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#48

Post by michaelochurch »

onemorepassword wrote: post #34
michaelochurch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 8 was disgusting, but I would have more reservations about working for a company that fired someone over his political beliefs, than at one that happened to have a conservative CTO. If I work for a company that takes a cavalier approach to firing, I'm putting my career at risk. But as long as there aren't other character issues, I don't think a conservative CTO is damning. They might not even know; it's not real…

Maybe it's cultural context, but in my book homophobia has nothing to do with legitimate political beliefs. Being conservative has nothing at all to do with bigotry. Promoting hatred and discrimination towards any group that is part of your (potential) employees and their friends and families would be good reason to fire someone as far as I'm concerned.

You're right. It was wrong of me to conflate homophobia and conservatism.

I found Prop 8 utterly repulsive, but I also dislike the precedent it sets to fire someone over protected political activity (campaign donations).

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#49

Post by jiggy2011 »

ben0x539 wrote: post #41
jiggy2011 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make a difference what the position of the person who's views you disagree with holds? I can sort of understand saying "I don't want to work to make our CEO richer because he will spend the money promoting causes I hate". But what about co-workers or subordinates? Would you be disturbed because the guy who cleans the floor holds controversial views? Also bear in mind that employees will leave and be replaced…

> he will spend the money promoting causes I hate > you're never going to get people who don't disagree on some divisive issue I'm not sure you appreciate how deeply these issues affect the people they're about. It's not just talking points for everybody.

Of course the issues affect people , that's why they have strong views.

However one of the great triumphs of capitalism appears to be getting very different people to work together towards a common goal.

Re: I Stand With Trolls

#50

Post by Zigurd »

zacharyvoase wrote: post #10

Just an anecdote, which I know is not the singular form of 'data', but still: I respect Mozilla as a company, but have no desire to work there (despite there being a lot of technology fit) because the CTO, Brendan Eich, made a donation of $1,000 to support Prop 8—a 2008 California ballot measure which banned gay marriage. Sure, I understood that his views were not those of his employer. But that doesn't make it easie…

There's a difference between taking an intolerant side in a civil rights issue and a game designer being dismissive of complaints. The latter is par for the course, for one thing, and on top of that, unless I missed the part about Microsoft not requiring always-on connections, he wasn't in disagreement with company policy.
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