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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#41
post #6
post #3

DHS honestly makes me embarrassed to be an American. We could kill the whole thing tomorrow and it would make zero difference to public safety.

This doesn't make too much sense. DHS isn't one thing; it's many things glommed into one, including INS, CBP, FPS, TSA, APHIS, FEMA, the strategic medical stockpile, the Coast Guard, and the Secret Service, among others. I don't like the TSA any more than you do, but can we hold on to the Coast Guard?

Well, when you build a bureaucratic monster there are all sorts of costs.

Completely unrelated agencies having to carry the ill will engendered by the ones that suck is one of those costs.

Perhaps they should have considered that.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#42
post #17

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

> It sucks. It's a form of psychic bribery. That seems like a terribly cynical way to view the idea that, if you're nice to people, they will be nice to you.

Not that cynical. It's more than just "being nice to people." You could end up annoying someone in such a position just by being nice, but asking too many questions. Maybe they had a bad day, and you're smiling too much.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#43
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make too much sense. DHS isn't one thing; it's many things glommed into one, including INS, CBP, FPS, TSA, APHIS, FEMA, the strategic medical stockpile, the Coast Guard, and the Secret Service, among others. I don't like the TSA any more than you do, but can we hold on to the Coast Guard?

Well, when you build a bureaucratic monster there are all sorts of costs. Completely unrelated agencies having to carry the ill will engendered by the ones that suck is one of those costs. Perhaps they should have considered that.

You think CBP was sunshine and roses before it got folded into DHS?

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#44
post #35

This is why the founders wrote a constitution circumscribing the powers of government. This is man bites dog. Person in power (cop, bouncer, immigration officer, DHS, whatever) abuses power. It's as typical as it gets.

>This is man bites dog.

I'm sorry, but you have it backwards, the point of that aphorism is that the event is unusual.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog_%28journalism%29

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#45
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, more or less. Remember: DHS exists because after 9/11, politicians got a bug up their ass about how many different federal agencies there were with missions that involved interior security, and decided there should be one cabinet-level authority managing all of those functions. It was not a well-thought-out thing; it is literally a meatball of different security, law enforcement, safety, military, and even scien…

Makes that they did that instead of addressing the actual security issue of 9/11 which was lack of intelligence sharing between FBI/CIA/etc I guess. Or maybe that's what the de facto merger of military and CIA is supposed to accomplish.

Intelligence sharing was indeed one of the key reasons they thought it would be smart to make the DHS meatball.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#46

No, DHS did not "steal" your boat. They confiscated it and you'll get it back by following some lengthy and convoluted appeal process. But I seriously don't understand Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) and why they have to be such utter dickheads on the Canadian border. Their Canadian counterparts (CBSA) are just as effective and efficient and somehow manage to be generally sane and rational.

Of course they stole it...

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#48
post #4

[deleted]

There's a pretty big difference between government seizure and stealing. There is? Coulda fooled me. If an individual took your boat without your permission, it's stealing. How is it different just because a large group of individuals got together and did it? Just because they give themselves fancy names like "government" and "State" and "DHS" doesn't mean they actually have any authority to take your property. I'm r…

Not sure why it doesn't belong on HN; it's part and parcel of the same institutional culture that gave us the prosecution of Aaron Swartz. Check out the details on one of the most infamous civil forfeiture cases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U..... This looks like either outright stealing or extra-judicial conviction of someone for the crime of "being a Mexican in possession of a large amount of cash." Either way, it looks pretty bad to me and shows how far the US legal system has moved away protecting property rights.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#49
post #31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The other solution is to be really, really nice. To be incredibly accommodating. To engender a spirit of goodwill, joviality and kindness such that the flunky wants to help you. That is not a practical solution. It sounds almost like a bribe. I'm not saying that you should be rude to anybody, but you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. Is a slippery slope. Now you are kissing the…

He is not explaining how things ought to be, he is explaining how things are. I think you guys agree.

While we're on the topic of explaining how things are... I don't think anyone's too surprised that Michael Arrington failed a congeniality test.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#50
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sucks. It's a form of psychic bribery. That seems like a terribly cynical way to view the idea that, if you're nice to people, they will be nice to you.

>That seems like a terribly cynical way to view the idea that, if you're nice to people, they will be nice to you. I'm saying that if you're nice to someone who wants nothing more than an excuse to hurt you, and who has no compunction about doing so, then perhaps you won't get hurt. The end goal is not for them to be nice to you. The goal is for them to refrain from making your life a living hell.

I just think there's another way to look at this situation.

Have you seen The Incredibles? The scene towards the beginning when Mr. Incredible helps the little old lady cheat the insurance system? I think most bureaucrats want to be that person. They want to give the good guy a break; they want to cut people who try hard a little bit of slack. It means more work for them, since they need to spend their own time to make sure those people followed instructions, and there's only so much energy you can give each one. Not only that, but they know the ways the bureaucracy was built a little loosely— the ways to get around things, not ways you should use all the time, but sometimes you have to.

That's the power bureaucrats have, and generally, they want to use it for good. They want to help that little old lady get her check. They want to let that kid go home when his dad dies. And yeah, they want to take a little time off themselves, but who doesn't?

What they don't want to do is go out of their way to help some random idiot who just wasn't paying attention to his own shit, who seems to think because you're paid to process paperwork it's your job to advocate for him, without so much as pretending like he's asking you for a favor. Screw that guy.

And, seriously, what are we asking here? I'm reminded of an Ani Difranco quote:

  “Maybe you don't like your job. Maybe you didn't get enough sleep. 
  Nobody likes their job; nobody got enough sleep. 
  Maybe you just had the worst day of your life. You know there's no escape,
  and there's no excuse, 
  so just suck up and be nice.”
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