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The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

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Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#31

Post by sskates »

eqreqeq wrote: post #19
javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

>> The other solution is to be really, really nice. To be incredibly accommodating. To engender a spirit of goodwill, joviality and kindness such that the flunky wants to help you. That is not a practical solution. It sounds almost like a bribe. I'm not saying that you should be rude to anybody, but you shouldn't have to kiss somebody's ass just so that they do their jobs. Is a slippery slope. Now you are kissing the…

He is not explaining how things ought to be, he is explaining how things are. I think you guys agree.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#32

Post by noarchy »

sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

Being arrested is way different from having been convicted of a crime, but it seems that border agents across the world don't want this pointed out. I've been asked a similar question often enough at the US-Canadian border("Have you ever been in front of a judge?").

Unfortunately, you do have to treat these encounters like you would police questioning. Don't volunteer information, and give very simple (yes/no) answers if you really need to answer.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#33

Post by eqreqeq »

yukoncornelius wrote: post #5

If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification. On the other hand, Mike is pleading his case in the court of public opinion, and his reputation is likely going to get him a lot of popular support either warranted or unwarranted.

>>If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification.

I hope you are right but I'm cynical. Her boss will probably not want to admit that one of his employees is such an incompetent idiot because at the end of the day it is a reflection on him. When an employee screws up it is always the manager's fault.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#34

Post by tptacek »

homosaur wrote: post #26
tptacek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USCG isn't part of TSA; they just happen to report to the same cabinet secretary. I'd guess that the boating run-in here was with CBP.

Perhaps my understanding of the USCG is underinformed then, I was under the impression that they were moved from the command of the Marines into DHS years ago. Are they simply an independent police organization then?

Yes, more or less.

Remember: DHS exists because after 9/11, politicians got a bug up their ass about how many different federal agencies there were with missions that involved interior security, and decided there should be one cabinet-level authority managing all of those functions. It was not a well-thought-out thing; it is literally a meatball of different security, law enforcement, safety, military, and even scientific agencies.

Which makes it an odd subject for directed contempt.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#36

Post by waterlesscloud »

Cushman wrote: post #17
javajosh wrote: post #10

Ah, procedure. I'm particularly fond of situations like this where the procedure is, for the normal person, a once-in-a-lifetime event. But the flunky on the other side of the desk does it every day. And they think you are yet another stupid person who doesn't understand the simple procedure, and they have nothing but contempt for those who don't understand the procedure as deeply as they do (especially which parts o…

> It sucks. It's a form of psychic bribery. That seems like a terribly cynical way to view the idea that, if you're nice to people, they will be nice to you.

It's not a balanced transaction.

You have to ingratiate yourself to them to have them treat you properly, and the only reason for that is their authority.

Psychic bribery is a fine term for it.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#37

Post by krichman »

yukoncornelius wrote: post #5

If this story went down exactly as Mike suggests the agent will lose her job or at least her federal law enforcement qualification. On the other hand, Mike is pleading his case in the court of public opinion, and his reputation is likely going to get him a lot of popular support either warranted or unwarranted.

I am personally fairly pleased his boat was taken, he's the one that inflicted TechCrunch on the public. But logically, I'm displeased that the government is doing things in this way.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#38

Post by GiraffeNecktie »

No, DHS did not "steal" your boat. They confiscated it and you'll get it back by following some lengthy and convoluted appeal process.

But I seriously don't understand Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) and why they have to be such utter dickheads on the Canadian border. Their Canadian counterparts (CBSA) are just as effective and efficient and somehow manage to be generally sane and rational.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#39

Post by justin66 »

sivers wrote: post #11

A guy I know was in a similar situation when trying to enter Australia. 20+ years ago, when he was 18, he was arrested for the afternoon because of a student protest. So now on the visa forms, when entering Australia on vacation, he was asked if he had ever been arrested. He checked yes. The border control people in Australia denied him entry, and put him on the next plane back home. When he told the border guy the f…

This highlights a problem which isn't unique to Australia. For example, if a potential employer (or whoever) asks you if you've ever been arrested and your record has been expunged or you've been pardoned, you are expected to lie and say "no". That is how the system works.

It sucks, but learning how to deal with these sorts of things is part of the price one has to pay when they have a run-in with the law. I'm not sure it's analogous to the boat thing. The agent really was wrong to insist on processing the boat with the incorrect information.

Re: The Department of Homeland Security Stole My Boat Today

#40

Post by homosaur »

tptacek wrote: post #34
homosaur wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps my understanding of the USCG is underinformed then, I was under the impression that they were moved from the command of the Marines into DHS years ago. Are they simply an independent police organization then?

Yes, more or less. Remember: DHS exists because after 9/11, politicians got a bug up their ass about how many different federal agencies there were with missions that involved interior security, and decided there should be one cabinet-level authority managing all of those functions. It was not a well-thought-out thing; it is literally a meatball of different security, law enforcement, safety, military, and even scien…

Makes that they did that instead of addressing the actual security issue of 9/11 which was lack of intelligence sharing between FBI/CIA/etc I guess.

Or maybe that's what the de facto merger of military and CIA is supposed to accomplish.

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