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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#41

Post by flohofwoe »

kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Russia doesn't really differentiate between right and left when it comes to trying to destabilize Europe, they throw random shit against the wall and then focus on what sticks.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#42

Post by robotomir »

kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

This is an oversimplification, I would not consider Orban far right and PB are more populist left if anything. And it's not all Russia's fault, in Bulgaria the pro-Russian government came into power after five years of self-proclaimed pro-Western politicians attacking the institutions for their own political gain. Well, it misfired.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#43

Post by flohofwoe »

keiferski wrote: post #27

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about th…

> as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US

The current US administration has made it very clear over and over again that deals, contracts and agreements don't mean shit to them.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#44

Post by junaru »

mrtksn wrote: post #28
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime. When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominat…

> Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves.

How can you type such nonsense? Look at 2014 Crimean annexation - thats "how good they defended themselves" without western training and billions in weapon aid. After four years they have million plus dead but "this is fine" for the west.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#45

Post by pavlov »

robotomir wrote: post #42
kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

This is an oversimplification, I would not consider Orban far right and PB are more populist left if anything. And it's not all Russia's fault, in Bulgaria the pro-Russian government came into power after five years of self-proclaimed pro-Western politicians attacking the institutions for their own political gain. Well, it misfired.

So Orbán is not far-right, but somehow American far-right politicians and influencers like J.D. Vance and Tucker Carlson loved him as a shining example of the kind of nationalist illiberal state they want to create. Hmm.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#46

Post by rob74 »

mejutoco wrote: post #30
keiferski wrote: post #27

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about th…

> It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Look at the Denmark graph (adversarial going up). I do not think in that case it is about "the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks" but about the US itself doing that.

It's also interesting that, while the "ally" curve is going down for all included countries, in some countries the "partner" (which is a weaker form of ally) curve is going up to partly compensate for that, while in others (mostly southern European, plus Switzerland and, of course, Denmark), it's also going down.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#47

Post by deaux »

RGamma wrote: post #29
toxicunderGroov wrote: post #23

[flagged]

The deindustrialisation -> rising populist right pattern is kinda similar in Lil' US (Germany); it started later and moves quicker. And we can't get by on software subscriptions.

What's particularly interesting is that the article shows how in Western Europe only Germany (and its brother Austria) has it's popular extreme right supporters be so pro-Russian. See in particular the chart about views on Ukraine. The majority of AfD and FPO voters see Ukraine as a "rival or adversary". Much more than RN, Reform UK, Vox, PVV, Chega or any of the Italian parties. And it's not even close.

Germany and Austria are once again the most dangerous countries in all of Western Europe. We'll very soon see an AfD win, and from that moment Germany will once again be hostile to the rest of Europe.

I already knew that Germany had learnt _less than_ nothing and had been saying this for years, though always being met by anger from Germans, regardless of their political allegiance. Until about a year ago, which is when at least some of them finally started admitting that indeed, they'd been living a lie.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#48

Post by scihuber »

I hope the EU population understands that Russia, the US, and China are essentially in a kind of military alliance, and that Ukraine is literally the only one openly opposing this alliance. If the EU wants Ukraine to shield it from drones, send more air defense systems. If the EU wants to end the war, give Ukraine more long-range missiles. If you want Ukraine to hold on, then spend money on rebuilding its infrastructure. But as we see, the EU is not rushing to help. It still supplies goods to Russia or buys from it because it benefits the EU’s economy. Ukraine is the EU’s only ally that will protect you. What other military threats does Europe face besides Russia?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#49

Post by scihuber »

flohofwoe wrote: post #41
kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Russia doesn't really differentiate between right and left when it comes to trying to destabilize Europe, they throw random shit against the wall and then focus on what sticks.

You’re absolutely right, but I’d also add that Russia’s cultural right and left are essentially just the right wing by U.S. or European standards.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#50

Post by scihuber »

musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

Psychologically, becoming a soldier will be difficult for everyone; if Russia launches an offensive against the EU, the regular army alone will not be enough.
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