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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#21

Post by pjc50 »

CarlitosHighway wrote: post #12
shevy-java wrote: post #5

> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US. That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans ne…

[flagged]

We need less unhinged sephiroth-posting and more recognition that neither Japan nor China could be kept poor and backwards forever, since we forcibly opened their economies at gunpoint centuries ago.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#22

Post by pjc50 »

brightball wrote: post #13

Not for this guy from Germany traveling across the US for the World Cup https://x.com/freddyla7?s=21

In the UK this feels like the least popular world cup in years. Even after Russia and Qatar, it feels like more of a FIFA corruption circus.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#24

Post by x3ro »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #15
CarlitosHighway wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're now spending and working on this gap like crazy.

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again. As if we haven't seen that film before. Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

I don't understand why this is being downvoted. It's not unreasonable to assume that increased militarization, coupled with increased nationalistic sentiment, could lead to inner-european conflicts escalating into wars. Sure, right now Russia is the enemy, but who knows what'll happen in ten years. And the military machinery is not just going to be scaled down immediately.

If he's being downvoted for his "selling weapons to Israel" comment, I just want to highlight that even a majority of Germans is against it, with 80% not wanting to send weapons [1]. Of course there are different polls, and others find that "only" 30% say "stop them", plus another 43% saying "limit them [2]. Either way, only a small minority is pro "send all the weapons".

[1]: https://www.plan.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/detail/80-proz... [2]: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1615302/umfra...

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#25

Post by tjpnz »

shevy-java wrote: post #5

> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US. That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans ne…

Europe also needs to be in a position where it can quickly deploy the anti-coercion instrument[0] should a foreign power interfere in elections or threaten territorial integrity. The last time it was on the table didn't give me confidence they could.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#26

Post by lyu07282 »

shevy-java wrote: post #7
lyu07282 wrote: post #2

Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.

Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campa…

Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spending.

What I meant was it would be more interesting to see any opinions that conflict with that above establishment consensus. For example on negotiated settlement of the Ukraine war vs. continuing the forever war. Like where do Europeans disagree with the strategic interests of the US, do they really 100% align as this poll makes it appear? How is that possible?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#27

Post by keiferski »

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country.

Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about the prospect of being attacked, as I don’t see how Portugal or Spain or France are at much geopolitical risk compared to the eastern flank.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#28

Post by mrtksn »

musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime.

When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominated by state forces, moats like network effect or IP go to the trash.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#30

Post by mejutoco »

keiferski wrote: post #27

Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country. Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about th…

> It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country.

Look at the Denmark graph (adversarial going up). I do not think in that case it is about "the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks" but about the US itself doing that.

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