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Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

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Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#41

Post by gchamonlive »

doix wrote: post #39
gchamonlive wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The modern model is totally unsustainable/not scalable, but I'm not sure what the alternative should be. It's by design. Kids don't produce capital for the elites. We peasants aren't supposed to have kids, just waste away grinding so that those in power can accumulate more power, because they can pay others and have as many kids as they want, but we from the middle class will struggle with one or two. It's a form o…

> Kids don't produce capital for the elites. Kids eventually grow up and "start producing capital". It's definitely beneficial for the "elite" in the long term for people to have kids.

Maternity leave is 4 months where I live, with many women afraid to express their desire to have kids in their jobs fearing they would be fired. Daycare is prohibitively expensive. A good education too.

Sure they grow up to join the workforce eventually, but 16-18 years doesn't show up in the quarterly reports, so the elites don't like it. I could be wrong, most likely am, but that's what I see and that's what these hostile practices represent.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#42

Post by conception »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #32
adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

You got two 'village' responses which I fully disagree with because a dozen reasons. The village is not going to help you change diapers, feed the children, or do anything except have the children play together. I do not find parenting that difficult because I parent differently. The alternative: Teach them to entertain themselves. They clean up their own messes. I have the kiddos do tasks with me. Babies are easy en…

Historically, the village 100% changed diaper, feed your children, nursed and generally helped out. Aunts, cousins, parents, friends all pitched in in the community to care for children.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#43

Post by bethekidyouwant »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #32
adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

You got two 'village' responses which I fully disagree with because a dozen reasons. The village is not going to help you change diapers, feed the children, or do anything except have the children play together. I do not find parenting that difficult because I parent differently. The alternative: Teach them to entertain themselves. They clean up their own messes. I have the kiddos do tasks with me. Babies are easy en…

I’m not even sure the premise is correct, what other complaint is socially acceptable wrt kids than “im tired” its just what one says when parenting is feeling like a drag. Honesty when the kids are laughing and everything is going smoothly, no one is “tired”

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#45

Post by porknubbins »

ctxc wrote: post #3

They report an hour less than average sleep time the first 3 months?! How did get so lucky?

That’s probably about how much I lost taking care of ours. She generally woke up twice to drink milk but I was still up for the first one. Loss of an hour sleep can still be brutal if its like 6.5 to 5.5 hours.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#46

Post by remexre »

binary132 wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I'm not sure what the alternative should be. A village where trusted neighbors and family members and a chain of kids in increasing ages can help look after each other.

I mean, we COULD just yield our kids to be raised by the state in pens by minimum-wage strangers and/or robots, I guess…

I can't tell if you're hyperbolizing the idea of community, or describing schooling.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#47

Post by 6AA4FD »

binary132 wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I'm not sure what the alternative should be. A village where trusted neighbors and family members and a chain of kids in increasing ages can help look after each other.

I mean, we COULD just yield our kids to be raised by the state in pens by minimum-wage strangers and/or robots, I guess…

We been doin that

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#48

Post by lotsofpulp »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #32
adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

You got two 'village' responses which I fully disagree with because a dozen reasons. The village is not going to help you change diapers, feed the children, or do anything except have the children play together. I do not find parenting that difficult because I parent differently. The alternative: Teach them to entertain themselves. They clean up their own messes. I have the kiddos do tasks with me. Babies are easy en…

> The village is not going to help you change diapers, feed the children, or do anything except have the children play together.

The (literal) village did all of these things for my grandparents when they were raising my parents. Everyone’s kids were almost everyone else’s kids, fed by whoever, whenever. Few, if any vehicles to worry about, so lots of groups of kids wandering about after the initial toddler stage.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#49

Post by cullumsmith »

adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

Maybe counterintuitive, but I've found that having more kids actually makes some things easier.

With 4+ children, the kids almost never come to us for entertainment. They form their own little society and find tons of ways to play and interact with each other. The little ones are just as likely to ask one of their older siblings to read them a story as they are to ask a parent, for example.

Sure, things like laundry and meals always have toil that increases with family size, but kids can start helping with such things after age 7 or so.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#50

Post by abirch »

gsinclair wrote: post #40
glitchc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain. Parenting is exhausting, especially the first two years or so. Hang in there, it gets a lot better. Lowering standards also helps (Does the house really need to be that clean? Does the toddler need a bath every day?)

Our doctor told us not to give the baby/toddler a bath every day. Didn’t need to tell me twice. (Every second day is fine, and better for their skin.)

We’d bath twice a week or with a blowout. Our kids are still alive
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