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Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

politico.eu

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Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#41

Post by mschild »

troupo wrote: post #15
Scarblac wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear takes like 15 years to build, it's being worked on but it won't be much more relevant soon. Green energy isn't very useful for heating in winter.

> Nuclear takes like 15 years to build 6-7 years. France built 40 its nuclear reactors in a decade, at 6-7 years per reactor. Right now China is building reactors at 6-7 years per reactor. --- start quote --- Nearly every Chinese nuclear project that has entered service since 2010 has achieved construction in 7 years or less. Every single conventional commercial-scale reactor project in Chinese history has achieved c…

> Right now China is building reactors at 6-7 years per reactor.

Thats China. In Europe, this building speed isnt going to happen anytime soon. The knowledge to build nuclear at that scale isn't in the coutry/continent anymore. You'd have to reteach an entire generation of engineers.

Besides that, part of the point of switching away from oil and gas is at least some independence. Europe isnt known for its nuclear fuel supply so now you're reliant on another country again.

Yes, most solar is produced in China but its about as low maintence as it gets and there is still enough knowledge to produce in Europe.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#42

Post by woodruffw »

throw310822 wrote: post #30
woodruffw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On its face, this suggests that only Russia and the US have any autonomy vis a vis who gets to be in NATO. What about what Ukraine wants?

NATO is a military alliance, the only ones who get a say about who is in it and who isn't are its current members. That said, of course choices have consequences, and some choices are more advisable/ appropriate than others.

I’m pretty confident that a large part of NATO (and all other military alliances) is the accession of new members. Candidate members have to want to accede, which goes back to my question: why are we talking about what the US and Russia want, when Ukraine’s wants are just as if not more important?

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#43

Post by throw310822 »

toyg wrote: post #28
throw310822 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> for Europe to stop allowing the US and Israel to do what they want Yes. > starting from the US arrogance that led to the war in Ukraine No. > We should go back buying gas from Russia Hell no.

Then buy it from the US at a higher price? The same US that helps Israel in occupation and genocide in Palestine and in attacking sovereign countries all around?

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#44

Post by phil21 »

usrnm wrote: post #18
Scarblac wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear takes like 15 years to build, it's being worked on but it won't be much more relevant soon. Green energy isn't very useful for heating in winter.

Google "Messmer Plan". France built 65 reactors in 15 years as a reaction to the 70s oil crisis, and now the majority of electricity in France comes from nuclear without any significant dependency on fossil fuels. The only thing that we're lacking is political will to change things.

Yep. Once people experience true hardship like having to keep their house just above freezing in the winter due to the cost of energy - all of a sudden impossible things become quite possible.

The only potential issue here would be if the west had collectively hollowed out its manufacturing base so much as to make surging capacity and capability a generational thing vs. immediate.

Coasting on past success eventually brings stagnation and pain. Hopefully the pain isn’t too horrible for normal folks this time around.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#45

Post by mytailorisrich »

Hikikomori wrote: post #34
mytailorisrich wrote: post #5

Europe has plenty of shale gas but refuses to exploit it. Nuclear was stopped or even dismantled. There is such a lack of strategic thinking that at some point the only logical conclusion is that we like to suffer and to lose.

Nuclear was stopped? Look at France.

The nuclear programme was effectively stopped in France and it is struggling to be revived.

As things stand now it won't be able to compensate for the closure of older reactors.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#46

Post by wiseowise »

drysine wrote: post #35
woodruffw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> starting from the US arrogance that led to the war in Ukraine What arrogance would this be?

Like this: "It's not that you refrain from doing something because it will offend Russia. If Russia is doing something that we don't want it to do, we should offend them."[0] And that's coming from a man who said a few minutes earlier: "There is one of the factor here that we seem to be forgetting, and we did, though it was not a legally binding assurance, we gave categorical assurances to Gorbachev, back when the So…

> "It's not that you refrain from doing something because it will offend Russia. If Russia is doing something that we don't want it to do, we should offend them."[0]

Has Russia ever refrained from offending the West when it suited their interests?

> And should I mention the US "midwifing" the coup in Ukraine in 2014? [2]

It takes some really stupid arrogance to say shit like this when Ukraine literally had Russian stooge as a president at the time, installed via fossil fuel extortion. If Russia wanted truly neutral Ukraine, they should've backed the fuck off in the first place.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#47

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

usrnm wrote: post #18
Scarblac wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear takes like 15 years to build, it's being worked on but it won't be much more relevant soon. Green energy isn't very useful for heating in winter.

Google "Messmer Plan". France built 65 reactors in 15 years as a reaction to the 70s oil crisis, and now the majority of electricity in France comes from nuclear without any significant dependency on fossil fuels. The only thing that we're lacking is political will to change things.

And now Flamanville 3 is 7x over budget and 14 years late. Online but not commercially operational.

Their EPR2 fleet are getting an enormously large subsidy at 11 cents kWh CFD for 40 years and interest free loans. Sum freely. With the first reactor online in 2038 of everything goes to plan.

How many trillions in subsidies should we handout to new built nuclear power to ”try for real”?

Or we can just build renewables and storage which is the cheapest energy source in human history.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#48

Post by throw310822 »

woodruffw wrote: post #42
throw310822 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO is a military alliance, the only ones who get a say about who is in it and who isn't are its current members. That said, of course choices have consequences, and some choices are more advisable/ appropriate than others.

I’m pretty confident that a large part of NATO (and all other military alliances) is the accession of new members. Candidate members have to want to accede, which goes back to my question: why are we talking about what the US and Russia want, when Ukraine’s wants are just as if not more important?

Look, the point is not what one wants. Everyone is free to make its own choices. The point is that choices have consequences, and when the consequences are very clear in advance and you still make that choice, you also take responsibility for the consequences. This attitude that "this is my will and I will pursue it, and I don't care about how others feel about it (because anyway I'm stronger)" is called arrogance.

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#49

Post by troupo »

roysting wrote: post #32
troupo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> starting from the US arrogance that led to the war in Ukraine The US arrogance of Russia claiming Ukraine is a country that shouldn't exist and invading it?

It’s never dawned on you that the lying, cheating, manipulative, murderous Epstein class government just may have lied to you? They may lie to you every day, telling you e.g., that there’s just absolutely no money for proper care of its own citizens’ fundamental needs, but then immediately approve 10X that amount to squander and personally profit from murder and military spending … but you think those people are just…

Okay. Now you've ranted.

You have anything more substantative than rants?

Re: Italy, Belgium set to lose gas supply after biggest LNG plant bombed

#50

Post by mytailorisrich »

Joeri wrote: post #12
wiseowise wrote: post #2

Hope this will be a wake up call for the countries to double down on green/nuclear energy instead of sucking Russian/Middle Eastern tit.

The majority of Belgium’s electricity comes from nuclear, wind and solar. They have been greatly expanding wind parks in the north sea, and they’re in the early stages of deploying SMRs. But the reality is that Belgium still needs a lot of natural gas for electricity production and its large chemical industry, and that all of this gas has to be imported. Long term there is the European hydrogen strategy which aims to…

Europe could produce plenty of gas but refuses to. Let's not forget that.
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